Susan Collins’ decision to give Maine’s support to the border wall is disheartening and seems yet another sign of democracies escalating erosion under the autocratic bullying of the Trump administration. I spent years working along the vastly beautiful Texas/Mexico border and there is a reason Representatives from this region are against an environmentally devastating divide that will not serve its own purpose. This includes Will Hurd, a Republican and former CIA operations officer in Afghanistan who represents 820 miles of border communities from El Paso to San Antonio. Hurd has referred to walls as the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border. We need 5.7 billion dollars for infrastructure that will actually keep us safer; new roads, new bridges, updated water systems, and better schools, not a massive dysfunctional symbol of presidential ego fueled by racism.
Sarah Loftus
Farmington, Maine
I can’t stand Collins and other Rhino types like William Hurd but I applaud Collins for her support of the wall. If you really want that wall to work you also need guys with rifles and Rottweilers patrolling. Machine gun towers every thousand yards in high risk areas. Stop kidding yourself Mrs.(I presume)Loftus, you and many others have been duped by forces much larger and complicated than your rural Maine mindset can comprehend.
“yet another sign of democracies escalating erosion”
That quote out of context sounds Marxist or a little communist perhaps? I’ve heard it before but can’t put my finger on it.
America has one hell of a drug and mental illness problem right now and slowing the flow of Chinese Fentanyl from over the Mexican and Canadian border is a step in the right direction. Trump doesn’t want to come right out and say that because they will JFK him.
I have question for you Mrs. or Ms. Loftus, did you ever ask your friend CIA Officer Hurd what opium fields he guarded over in the stan? We were there, we know what happened/is happening. One more question, do you think it is an accident he represents 820 miles of border with Mexico? Read between the lines…
On a side note, can’t trump just pay for the wall himself? I would think that would be right up his ally as a developer. He could plaster “TRUMP” in gold all over it and brag about it forever. Cheers.
Enough with the racist crap from misandrous females and soy boys, securing our southern border isn’t racist, it just happens to be the squeakiest wheel, so it gets the most grease. Walls do work, very effectively, you know what doesn’t work? What we have now. And $5.7 billion is nothing compared to the amount of money dems waste every year on stupid crap.
My only comment is Thank You Susan Collins!!
Seal the entire Southern Border and let the Drug Cartels murder another 12,thousand human souls. I have lived and worked in Mexico and the people who live the ‘Liberal Life’ here in Maine have no idea what some of those animals can do to society. Take a nice fellow named Ramon Salcido who made it to Northern Calif. and one day got angry and slit the throats of his baby daughters, took them to the local dump then killed his wife, killed her mother and then murdered a fellow employee. He fled to his mother’s home in Mexico and was soon captured. Stories like that are repeated every day in the west and in the south and will soon be part of New England history if that border is not controlled and everyone entering vetted. Mexico is totally unstable and is a major threat to a peaceful American Society. The Latin people are wonderful but they do not rule south of the border…Vicious Drug Cartels Do and they will kill you, your children and your dreams.
Sarah,
By your logic; the walls on your dwelling are racist.
Susan has said her priority is getting a budget passed and federal workers back to work. She voted for both the Democratic proposal and the Republican proposal. She doesn’t want a terrorist bombing happening because federal workers aren’t doing their jobs. I don’t think the wall has anything to do with it.
If and when a terrorist attack does happen think back and maybe you will understand her position a little better.
Myself I think it is ironic that we have a president that is willing to put the country at risk because he wants a wall to keep the country safe. What’s even more ironic is that some people are actually supporting that position.
The Democrats are not going to be held hostage on this because they know that it will become the norm (at least for this president) in the future and that’s no way to run a government.
So far Susan is doing exacting what she should be doing.
Liberals can stop whining, Trump caved yet again after Pelosi kicked the snot out of him. He’s as much of a wussy now as when he dodged the draft. I wish we’d voted in a real Republican, but I’m not sure there is one in today’s politics. Certainly not Collins!
@ Richy,
If I think back, I’m fairly certain a wall wouldn’t have stopped the events of Sept. 11th, 2001. If I also can recall correctly, a few of those terrorists strolled right on through the boarders of Maine and cleared through PWM just fine. Walls won’t stop drugs, walls won’t stop illegal immigrants, walls won’t stop bad hombres, walls won’t stop terrorists. Where’s the disgust in Donald’s campaign promise that Mexico was going to pay for it? He was holding the government hostage unless he got the money for his “fence.” That kool-aid must have a nice punch to it.
Beautiful border,,,?
If hourds of aspiring illegal aliens scurrying around in the dark is beautiful to you,,,, ??
Get your head out of the clouds or the liberal propaganda machine long enough to find reality.
It’s vastly ugly (and I don’t mean those poor people themselves)..
Some are killers and criminals.. the majority of them are victims and people we would love to have as citizens of our wonderful country
Either way,,, they need to be vetted. Legally.
Infastructure,, no brainier we need all that.
It needs to be built by our own workers who are not so addicted to these drugs that they can’t work effectively.
These drugs that flow freely across our border.
I don’t know you, whether you are Antifa or a serious citizen, but Collins got this one right.
You don’t seem to understand the Vastness of the problem.
Let there be a wall, and those who wamt to immigrate to the United States Of America come thru a border crossing. Many say a wall won’t work, let’s find out. Welfare slugs in this country eat up 5.7 billion in a month. Send them to the Southern Border to be used as manpower to build the wall, a win win situation.
It is hysterical and pathetic to listen to these small-minded small-town folk espouse on what is best for our nation. Most people in this region have never experienced life in other parts of the country or the world. These ultra-conservative haters brought us the worst president in our nation’s history and have supported a government shutdown which has devastated thousands of families throughout America. This shutdown has been the real crisis, unlike the totally fictional crisis that Trump created. The president is a failed businessman who conned the small-minded with fear and racism. Trump has now caved to a powerful woman and he will soon be indicted, impeached or both. Susan Collins will soon pay the price for her betrayal of sexual assault victims and hard-working American families. She is the last Republican to represent any state or district in New England. So happy that her cowardly tenure in office will soon come to an end!
Arnold,
You recited the extreme lefts propaganda perfectly. Nice parrot job. Anything original to offer?
Now,, what was “your” offer during the presidential election?
C’mon Man!
We’re you and this Sarah illegally harassing Collins family in Bangor? These were low life’s who accomplished absolutely nothing.
What’s really Pathetic and hysterical,,,
Your extremely left really shading the extreme right…
SMALL MINDS THINK ALIKE..
Arnold, You need to get out more, step away from the CNN for a while and get some fresh air.
The President miscalculated and engaged in a very self-defeating shutdown strategy. Collins and other Republicans who supported the Democratic proposal (as well as the GOP one) sent a message to the President: you’re losing this fight and you need to end the shutdown. He got the same deal he would have gotten in December. However, the Democrats need to give Trump something – we have divided government, neither side can dictate. If Trump doesn’t learn to work with the Democratic House, he’ll get nothing done the next two years. (my take in full: https://scotterb.wordpress.com/2019/01/26/trump-had-no-choice/
Segregationists, KKK, Nazis, Skinheads, Mccarthyism, Apartheid, ethnic cleansing, Japanese internment camps, homophobes, racists, Chinese Exclusion Act, Jim Crow laws, MAGA, Trump supporters. A hater by any other name is still a hater.
Everyone agrees that we have an opioid crisis here in the state and throughout this country. Where are the drugs coming from? Experts tell us most of the heroin coming into the United States is cultivated on poppy farms in Mexico, with cartels controlling production and operating distribution hubs in major U.S. cities. It seems to me that if there was a wall to control illegal entry into this country, our border patrol would have more time and manpower to combat the smuggling that comes through legal ports of entry. In other words, if you really care about the opioid epidemic, you should be in favor of building a wall. It’s common sense.
Perspective: No wall will address the opiod crisis. Most of these drugs are prescription drugs made and sold here in the US. No wall will stop drugs from entering. A wall is an out of date notion that doesn’t deal with the fact that in today’s world there are many ways around and over and under walls. But opiods are a home grown problem, not at all one a wall will help with.
@ Arnold
The Democrats are pushing more and more for the likes of carbon tax (or to the more extreme, the ‘Green New Deal’), which is going to negatively affect a lot more than the thousands the government shut down did. Have fun globetrotting or driving to work when fuel prices are artificially inflated while at the same time your taxes are elevated based on how big your ‘carbon footprint’ is. The offerings of the Left can be seen in France where the cost of living spiraled out of control and caused violent protests to break out. We can look forward to that here in the United States in the near future, I imagine.
On the topic of Susan Collins being considered a ‘betrayer of sexual assault victims’, by your logic, Hillary Clinton standing by her husband who has several sexual misconduct allegations against him would make her a betrayer or sexual assault victims also, yet you likely supported her when she campaigned in 2016. Is that not a double standard? Or does it simply not matter because Hillary is a Democrat and not a Republican?
You also seem to have a lot of hate for people who don’t have the same ideas as you. I am curious, which hater group do you identify with? Silly question, you obviously belong to the Progressive Movement, which preaches tolerance yet is completely intolerant toward those who dare question their logic.
Let’s also remember the House can’t magically impeach Trump regardless of what they find (I imagine most politicians regardless of affiliation if looked into could be stripped of their position, even the powerful woman Nancy Pelosi), as there also needs to be a 2/3rds Senate majority which the Democrats failed to gain. I wouldn’t hold your breath, my friend, or you might pass out.
Cheers,
Shamus
Arnold, You listed things that the democrats or leftists started. The Klan was started by democrats, The Nazi party was started by democratic socialists, Apartheid was started by Dutch socialists in South Africa in response to Mandela’s group called MK. Communists love ethnic cleansing as do some “socialist” leaders in Africa, Jim Crow laws were designed and enforced by democrats. Japanese internment, FDR authorized that after the attack on Pearl Harbor, FDR was a democrat. The Chinese Exclusion act was voted in favor of in the house and senate by more democrats than Republicans by 3 to 1. MAGA is a catch phrase, Trump supporters didn’t start Black Lives Matter or ANTIFA, A hater by any other name is still a democrat. Like I said, get some fresh air.
A hater named Arnold is still a hater…But thank you for helping us understand why we ‘dislike’ far left loons.
I’m sure you were fine with the 1.8 BILLION DOLLARS that Obama gave Iran. That money could have done a lot of good in America.
Lehigh: Obama didn’t give money to Iran. Iran had frozen assets that he unfrooze. It was their money all along. We can’t steal their money. This is the kind of misinformation that creates false beliefs.
Thank you Shamus.
@Scott Erb: It is no longer true that prescription drugs are the leading cause of overdose deaths. Here is a link to the CDC, which states
“The third wave began in 2013, with significant increases in overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids – particularly those involving illicitly-manufactured fentanyl (IMF). The IMF market continues to change, and IMF can be found in combination with heroin, counterfeit pills, and cocaine.”
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/epidemic/index.html
Fentanyl is coming into the US from Mexico. Should we do nothing to try and stop the flow? Is it a lost cause? I think not, and I believe a wall is a deterrent.
No wall will stop drugs, the wall is an obsolete campaign promise based on nothing. Good news: the Democrats will offer a compromise with increase border security that will work. It won’t be a wall, but since Trump was humiliated in this show down, he’ll accept the compromise and it’ll be good for everyone.
If walls were working, African migrants would no longer be able to enter the EU. But guess what, they can bypass the wall by going across the ocean.
If walls were working, communism would have never ended. The eastern bloc was separated by the West through a long network of walls, trenches, mine-fields, barbed-wire fencing. Somehow people got across nevertheless all the time.
If walls were working, Palestinians wouldn’t ever get into Israel. But guess what, they do, both legally and illegally.
If walls were working, the Mongols would have never been able to invade China, the Picts would not have been able to invade Britain, etc.
Walls have been tried many, many times, and they always turn out to be a waste of money
Finallly, US Customs and Border control official have documented that drugs enter the US the most legal way possible: by being carried by couriers who can legally enter the US at the designated border crossings. So if we want to really stop drugs from entering the country, then why don’t we hire more customs and border control officers to strip search anyone entering the border at designated border crossings?
And just in case you’re not really interested in stopping drugs but use it as a smoke-screen to not have to admit that you don’t want political, ecological, and economic refugees entering the US – those are the people crossing the border today and they’re actually self-reporting themselves to apply for asylum – then maybe just come out and say that. The number of illegal crossings of the US-Mexican border is as low as 1971.
Before I moved back to Maine and became a small-minded small-town bitter clinger hater, I lived in Texas briefly 1979-80. Near Houston, unfortunately. The high point of that time was a vacation in Big Bend National Park. It was mid October and hotter than the hinges. Mexican workers crossed the river twice a day with no formal checkpoints. We tourists crossed into Mexico to visit a wonderful cantina – also no checking. All in all, it was a great experience.
It’s gone now. Oh, the park is still there, but it’s all inside a 100 mile wide strip of land that the US has ceded, in all ways except formal treaty, to the cartels and gangs. When I first entered the park from the highway, the only sign read “Campground – 84 miles”. That has been augmented by a huge sign that reads “WARNING! You are entering dangerous territory where US law enforcement cannot respond to distress calls in a timely fashion. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK”. A wall would allow the area to revert to a safe and properous vacation spot. Perfect? Of course not, but one hell of a lot better than now.
“A hater by any other name is still a hater.” – Indeed. Even one named Arnold.
Perspective
You got it partly right, the new wave is synthetic drugs but Meth, Crystal Meth, Fentanyl and all the other synthetic drugs are being made right here in the U.S. Why would anyone want to make them in Mexico and then have to smuggle them across the boarder?
Haven’t you been watching the news, Meth labs are being raided on a regular basis in Maine and other states all the time. Synthetic drugs and simple to make and a quick way to make a ton of money, that’s why people are doing it.
Most of the people coming across the boarder are people that just want a better life. All this propaganda about people bringing disease, drugs etc. for the most part is just so much crap put out to get support for trump.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow mindedness and many people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s life.” Mark Twain
I’ve traveled in the Southwest, maybe all you people who think the boogeyman is coming should go see what’s really happening.
I really don’t think a wall will make any difference. I don’t think Trump really believes in the wall, it’s a political slogan he used and now he feels he has to make good. But experts think the money would be better spent on law enforcement and modern equipment. I suspect they’ll reach a compromise that will enhance border security but not build a complete wall. I think trying to stop the supply of drugs is as its always been – rather useless. The most effective solution is stop demand. If there is demand, there will be a supply.
Richy – you are mistaken, the vast majority of fentanyl is in fact being smuggled from Mexico. From the DEA
“Clandestinely-produced fentanyl is primarily manufactured in Mexico.”
https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/fentanyl
Surely the Mexican cartels smuggling vast amounts of drugs into this country is not fiction.
I don’t believe many people are really afraid of a boogyman in the form of illegal immigrants. However, as I stated in an earlier comment, if border agents can spend less time chasing down people entering this country illegally, they can spend more time attending to the problem of drug smuggling. If this country can stem the flow of drugs, we can save lives. I do believe this should be the focus of having a wall/better security at the border.
Here’s a great idea. Lets make Mexico pay for a wall. and while they’re at it we can sell them Brooklyn bridge t too.
I could list all the Countries and locations that have walls, fences, fortified barriers, etc., that “work” to keep people “out”, as opposed to keep people “in”, as one wall noted on a prior post by a Wall denier. Instead however, I suggest, Google does a somewhat “bias” and “adequate job”. So, rather than argue about semantics and bias opinions as several have demonstrated as usual in their posts, I will simply state, that if the goal is to protect “national security” and curtail “illegal immigration”, the record is clear, walls work. Just like in the USA, other countries have their walls and more are being built and planned as we speak. However, that “news” is only reported outside of the USA, or by “non-mainstream media”.
Another thing that struck me as obtuse and bias from those opposing the wall is their rendition of their travels and lack of awareness of the obvious. l also have travelled in Europe and the southwest. Not recently, but as late as 2005 when the “Wall” was not on the front pages or the main topic daily on the networks. Even still, I was made very aware of the “risks” of being in the desert in SW Texas, not by the newspaper or CNN, but by the landowner himself, that I was visiting. Even thought he owned several thousands of acres and was 80 miles from the Mexican border, he made it clear that it was not safe to walkabout on his land alone, unarmed and especially never at night. And unlike the way it used to be here in Maine and other places in the past, when a homeowner was able to leave the doors unlocked with the belief that someone trustworthy would be allowed to enter without prior vetting or not fear that the person is a criminal with bad intent or worst, may inflict bodily harm, is clearly not the case these days.
Also, why does the White House have a great big fence, sharp shooters on the roof? How many in congress, officials in government present and past (Obama has a wall around his home) in addition to secret service and armed contractors as protection from anyone “not invited” ? I could go on, but reasonable people don’t need repeated statements or as I said before, stating the obvious. So, to pretend to be ignorant and dismiss this as paranoia is demonstrating the level of naïveté that one is afflicted with…
Nuff Said…
@Scott Erb…”I really don’t think a wall will make any difference”. So why do the men and women who work on the border believe a “wall” will help. Have you been down there and seen something that would change their minds?
I have family in the Southwest. I just returned from a visit there. They have lived in the suburbs of a major city for more than 10 years. They’re seriously considering selling and moving further away due to the last decade’s spike in drug-related crime. Where there was once a peaceful, vibrant city there is now gang-related murder, rape, robbery happening on a regular basis. You can bet my family thinks a wall is a good idea. Here is a link to a very recent poll taken in Texas.
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/02/28/poll-texans-support-trump-wall-daca/
“A majority of Texans support border security and either a pathway to citizenship or extended work permits for people brought to the United States illegally as children or DACA (Deferred Action For Childhood Arrivals) recipients.”
@JL, how about pointing to one wall that works to keep foreigners out of a country. I’d love to learn more but without evidence I’m not going to take your word for it.
Oh, and yes, I’ve travelled too. But I wouldn’t rely on my experience traveling to places once a long time ago to make a point about the here and now. In 2005, illegal border crossings were at an all-time high, and many people including the US government and media worried about it. That is why the US government actually started to build fencing on several stretches of the border. But the fencing didn’t work to keep people out and so the project was abandoned. In 2018, the number of people illegally crossing the border was at an all-time low, which makes one wonder why blow money on a wall, when we could spend the same money employing more CBC-agents.
Also, and this is for many of you posters, your posts would be significantly more convincing if you didn’t pretend that those who oppose your views are stupid, imbecile, or crazy. Using words like “biased” (yup, it does need an -ed) or “obtuse” or “snowflakes” or “wall-deniers” or whatever else you may use to express your disgust with other people’s thinking doesn’t make you credible or knowledgeable, it makes you come across as inflexible and unthinking and gullible. Granted you can say that I just called you names, too, but I didn’t do that to discredit your opinions but to point to the fact that your attempt to disrespect other’s opinions doesn’t invalid those opinions in any way.
If Trump said it, its gotta be trumped!
A ten foot (10′) wall around Obama’s house?
Source Slate
“It turns out though that the Obamas don’t actually have a wall around their home in Washington, D.C. Two of Obamas’ neighbors talked to the Washington Post and said that while the home does have some security features that other homes in the area lack, the house itself can be seen from the street. “There’s a fence that goes along the front of the house, but it’s the same as the other neighbors have,” the neighbor said. “It’s tastefully done.”
How to build a wall that works: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tom-bradys-wall-defense-includes-incredible-bargains-explains-part-patriots-dominance-055039118.html
Its not just the wall that counts, its reviewing what works, and improving on it.
Its the history of the events, its the analytics of the opposition.
A wall itself is great, but an effective border control process is what’s needed: The right people, and technology in the right places.
A wall as part of a comprehensive border security plan is a no brainier. Common sense tells us that a physical barrier, whether itbe a wall, a fence or a natural one, will send would be trespassers to the unencumbered locations. Obviously where there’s a will there’s a way. Some will opt for the hard route. Most, because they seek the path of least resistance, will seek out the areas with no physical barrier. Border patrol can then concentrate on smaller portions of the border.
On another note. The CBO just announced that the partial shutdown cost 11 billion. That’s 5.3 billion more than president Trump wanted for America’s border wall. Hmm. I guess the wall would have been a bargain. Call your representatives and tell them to do their jobs. Negotiations and compromise involve both sides talking. Border security is necessary and all these Democrats voted numerous times for physical barriers, until president Trump wanted it.
Joe – Pelosi had to stand firm here to make clear to the President that with a divided government one side can’t simply dictate terms. One reason she kept her caucus together (including centrists Democrats who like aspects of the wall) is that she promised she would negotiate. President Trump has talked about technology as doing a better job than a wall in many cases. I see the outlines of a compromise with some wall like structures, but other security enhancements like drones or high tech equipment. Pelosi needs to balance the progressive and centrist wings of her party, and Trump has to balance his. Hopefully they’ll meet in the middle and each can claim some kind of victory. But Pelosi could not give in to Trump on this – then she’d have been weakened and the President wouldn’t take divided government seriously. I think he realizes he has to bargain on equal terms now. (To be sure, I read it was more like 3.5 billion, not 11…I’ll try to look that up).
I would point out that illegal crossings and border violence is down. It’s certainly not a crisis.
We had better let a couple thousand Mexicans in first so they can build it. Our kids aren’t lining up to pour concrete,pound nails or weld.
Scott, I appreciate your optimistic response. Unfortunately Nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer have made it pretty clear that they’re not negotiating. They unlike you or I don’t seem to understand compromise. there’s most definitely a middle ground. The problem is that Republicans don’t March in lock step. They each have somewhat different opinions. And never come to a mutual agreement. Democrats, follow their leaders no matter what. No matter the cost to the country. Remember pelosi explaining, we have to pass it and then we can read what’s in it. ( Obamacare). I hope you are right, that there will be compromise. I haven’t seen anything to make me confident that our current government is capable of such a basic function.
After watching cbs this morning and their interview with Mr. Schultz of Starbucks I am looking forward to the discussion on an independent running for President. Some will say the sky is falling and people will die in the streets and others will declare spoiler alert.
@ Sabine Klein – Here’s your one country: Israel. Their wall keeps out 99% of Palestinian terrorists, but causes only minor inconvenience to Palestinian workers moving back and forth through legal ports of entry. The US has lots of those all along our southern border. We just need a wall to force more people to use them.
Frostproof – your example shows how wrong you are. First, Palestinians enter Israel all the time. Many of them work there. Second, there is real conflict there – Mexicans not only are entering the US in smaller numbers, but they came because they were lured here by businesses wanting to pay wages lower than what Americans were demanding. The best way to stop that flow is punish the businesses. The wall is a farce – there is no crisis, no emergency, no danger, it’s fear mongering and appealing to people’s dark side – bigotry and fear of the other.
Joe – President Obama was willing to compromise with the GOP, but McConnell famously said that it was his duty to stop Obama, and the Republicans refused to work with the Democrats, staying pretty united. So I doubt one can really say that Democrats follow their leadership more than Republicans do. Obamacare was a case in point, they had to make massive compromises to win over centrist Democrats who balked at the original plan. I think it’s easy for people to see their preferred party as somehow better or more virtuous than the other party, but in reality both parties have divisions and it’s the job of the leaders to handle them. Pelosi has to balance the centrist and progressive wings of the party, and that’s no easy task. I think she can. I think President Trump has to recognize that Reagan, Clinton, Bush the Younger and Obama all won second terms by convincing the public he was President for the whole country, not just his party. If President can’t do that, he will not be re-elected.
@Scott Erb, actually illegal border crossing apprehensions have increased. In 2017 US Customs and Border Protection apprehended 415,517 persons. In 2018 that number was 521,090. Granted, it is down significantly from 2014, when Obama was President (569,237).
If you notice, apprehensions for fiscal year 2019 is quite high so far. That is not an indication of there being no crisis at our border. Quite the opposite. Here is a link:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
Also, I must take exception to your broad-brush statement about the subject of border security as “fear mongering and appealing to people’s dark side”. For many of us,improving our outdated and inefficient border security is a sensible and long overdue tool to help ensure our country’s immigration laws are being followed. I don’t think I need to repeat the other point I have made regarding a wall and impact on the opioid crisis.
Finally, Frostproof stated the wall in Israel has kept out “Palestinian terrorists” not Palestinians. I’m sure you don’t mean to suggest that all Palestinians are terrorists.
Scott, anybody that knowingly enters a country illegally is a lawbreaker, period, and yes, people that hire lawbreakers are also breaking the law.
I agree that the ” The Wall ” as presented is pretty much a farce.
I am confused as to how you can say with absolute certainty that there is no danger. There are many examples of people that came here illegally can certainly be a danger.
@ Scott Erb – Please read my earlier post – for the first time, evidently.
First, I specifically mentioned Palestinian workers going back and forth into Israel.
Second, I specifically did NOT mention Mexicans, only that our porous border with Mexico is littered with legal ports of entry. Perhaps you haven’t seen the reports, but every country in Central America is sending its poor & down-trodden to the US, helped along by our friends in Mexico, aided and abetted by the pandering class here in the US. Except, of course, those countries with functioning economies: Panama, Costa Rica, & Belize. I’ll leave it to someone with your credentials to point out the obvious differences between them and Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, & El Salvador. Soon to be joined by lots of jolly folks from the Socialist Workers’ Paradise of Venezuela.
Third, ask anyone who owns / operates a ranch in the ever widening no-man’s-land how much his daily cost is to clean up after the previous night’s damage from illegal aliens. Ask if he thinks there’s no crisis or emergency or danger. The answer is likely to be somewhat different from what we hear 2000 miles away.
Fourth, you really should work on your cognitive skills before you accuse others of fear mongering and bigotry. If you really care to see who is mongering fear and bigotry, take a quick look in the nearest mirror.
Billyjoebob – I mean it’s not a national emergency, the numbers are way down, and most people come looking for work.
Perspective: numbers apprehended don’t show the number crossing, the numbers went up because there was increased patrolling of the border and a willingness to make arrests. Back before 2008 the efforts were almost nil and the numbers crossing were much greater because unemployment was very low and we needed workers. When the economy tanked in 2008, suddenly people saw these workers are competition for jobs. I think President Bush had the best plan in 2007, but unfortunately he wasn’t able to get it passed.
There’s just no reason to see this as some kind of emergency – it’s an issue that has existed for decades, and there seems to be political will on both sides to enhance security. I think the idea of a “wall” makes very little sense in these days of high tech methods. It was a campaign gimmick Mexico was supposedly going to pay for, and as such I think the President needs to recognize he’s not going to get a wall, but he’ll get a lot more than has been done in the past to enhance border security. I think that should be acceptable to all sides. I’m hoping Joe is wrong and Pelosi will compromise. Ultimately, though, if birth rates stay low, we may need immigration to keep the economy moving. Many economists think the high rate of Mexicans entering the US in the 90s helped the economy.
@ Scott Erb – part two
I agree about punishing businesses looking only at the bottom line. However, it’s the responsibility of Congress to establish the rules through legislation. Good luck convincing Pingree and Golden to go against their leaders – using the term very loosely – who are counting every vote they can get in the horde crossing the border.
Scott, I didn’t mention ” emergency “, I questioned you saying ” there is no danger “
Scott Erb, it is beyond absurd for you to say that there is “no danger”. Maybe you could go tell that to the wife and 6 month old boy of officer Ronil Singh who was shot and killed the day after Christmas by criminal illegal alien Gustavo Perez Arriaga after Singh pulled him over for drunk driving. So to break that down for you, he comes here ILLEGALLY, is driving drunk, and shoots/kills a police officer. His wife and little boy are now permanently separated from their husband and father but somehow you way too many others think there is no danger. Sadly, this is just one story of thousands that happen every year in this country but we usually never hear about it because it doesn’t fit the PC narrative. Unbelievable.
RRJ, life has danger everywhere – in large cities, in desolate areas. But there is no emergency or danger due to the lack fo a wall. It is weak, feeble thinking to look at any crime committed by someone who entered the country and go crazy. The crime rate is LOWER for illegal aliens than American citizens, so you have just as much danger from your fellow countryfolk as from the southern border. Your approach reminds me of how Nazis would tell stories about Jewish criminals in order to prove that Germans should fear Jews. Yours has the same morality.
Yes, Jews in Germany often committed crimes. So did Germans. When the Nazis would point to Jewish crimes they’d say “this proves Jews are a danger!”
Scott, sometimes I just have to shake my head at your comments.
RRJ gives an example of an illegal immigrant taking a life, that could have possibly been prevented by a security wall. Maybe not, but we don’t know for certain.
You turn around and call this commenter ” weak and feeble thinking ” and compare building a security wall to rounding up millions of Jews and murdering them.
Scott, you’re right, we’ve already got enough criminals in our country. Even more reason to have stronger border security (which should include physical barriers where it makes sense) to help prevent even more criminals from entering illegally. I’m all for immigration, it just needs to be done legally and we need to make sure we are properly vetting the people coming in.
BTW, your Nazi talk is ridiculous and you should know better. They were putting Jews into ovens. All we’re asking is for people to follow the legal process of entering our country and not break our laws. That’s not too much to ask and a far cry from a concentration camp and being burned to death.
Funny how lots of the same people who say illegal immigrants killing American citizens is a small problem not worthy of laws targeting it will also support restrictions on gun owners because” even if they only save one life it’s worth it”
Bashing Trump makes money for journalism. De-vice warrior histrionics attempt to indoctrinate folks with False Evidence Appearing Real. i.e. FEAR
The Al & Erb Show has been privileged to enjoy frequent flying for our amusement. TEE HEE
Back to the letter that started this … a couple questions for Ms. Loftus:
Obama built 134 miles of wall. Was that also a massive dysfunctional symbol of presidential ego fueled by racism?
Pelosi now says a wall is immoral, although she was sort-of OK with it just a couple months agp. If she really believes that, where is the House bill to tear down Obama’s immoral wall?
That’s a great question Frostproof. I would also like to know the answer to that and while at it maybe tell us what happened to the rest of the billions of dollars they had to use. That kind of money should have done the entire border not just 134 miles.
BY the way Eddie you also make a GREAT point. It’s called hypocrisy.
if you all want a wall so desperately, get Mexico to pay for it. Trump promised this hundreds of times as well.
Yes I agree…Lets go back to the Letter!
The President, El Trumpster, wants $5.7 Billion (haven’t checked on the latest figures, etc., I could be off by a few mil), for the “Wall” Hmm? The Patriots are scheduled to play the Super Bowl in a freshly built state of the art, with an amazing sky view SUUper-SUUper Stadium for…? Wait for it! —-a cost to build, a Kool 1.7 to 2.5 Billion, (depending on who you ask with all the add ins and contributions/ funding from others, not just the out-of-pocket money from Mr. Home Depot). So, others have argued already, to put in perspective what the cost for the Wall relative to the National budget is, and realized cost/benefits from having a first line of defense barrier/the “WALL”, so I wont dwell on that tiny fraction/cost. Again, wait for it! Lets see…Obby “The One” Cannobee’s, Grand plan to save the Country was to spend $832 billion in the infamous “esssstimulus package” which after many trials and tribulations, “Fun-da-mentally” did not amount to much, in other words all cost/spending and no reciepts. Ok, some roads and bridges were built and a few jobs were saved, (BTW, thanks to his own parties’ failures and “Job-Lock”, the record high-unemployment needing saving). OH…and his other famous savior moment, that of the, resurrection of GM! So in the end, as I stated not much of a cost/benefit was achieved. Continuing with rising unemployment, increased SNAP/Welfare costs and lost homes from failed government programs , etc. just to name a few of the losses which when you add all these factoids in a real-life balance sheet, yielded miner gains, in fact losses. However, this great lack of achievement is rarely opined or referred to on any mainstream source as historical facts.
Oh, “The Mexico is Goin To Pay for it”. You mean like…? The, “Russia…find Hillary’s, emails, please?” Hillarious, just like any ordinary Cat…point the laser and the Cat will follow the Dot! Brilliant…
Nuff Said…
JL,
You seem to have ignored a few facts in your slam of Obama. He inherited the largest recession since the Great Depression, caused once again, by a Republican. Once he took over the economy slowly, and steadily, recovered. He took criticism for this slow, steady recovery, but if you look at the graphs it’s apparent the present economy is a linear, or nearly linear, graph which trended upward after Bush “Crashed the ambulance” to borrow a Mark Knopfler line. Tax cuts for the rich, the battle cry of Republicans, didn’t work for Reagan, or either Bush, and they won’t work for Trump, who took an economy cruising along at a positive rate, and blew up the deficit, which happened in every tax cut for the rich in the past. Your kids and grandchildren will love trying to pay for his record deficit, and don’t spend that promised tax cut until you get your refund! It’s all going to the rich, while our taxes won’t go down, and may even go up.
Yes, when someone says they are going to make something happen, I fully expect them to do it. Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall, so why did he increase his demand from 5.2 million in December, to 5.7 million and shut down the government? It was all to try to fulfill a campaign boast. I call it that and not a promise, as a promise is only given by an honest person, which nobody can claim Trump is. He’s lied like he always does: unfortunately you seem to have drunk his cool aid and ignore his blatant lies. A laser, really? Why do you think Trump says and does all these crazy things? He just keeps pointing your laser at something even more ridiculous, and we tend to forget about the other lies while we explore his latest claim. Tariffs are paid by foreign companies? No way, they’re a tax on us, not foreigners. ISIS is dead, we won? I remember GW saying that on the deck of an aircraft carrier many years ago while we are still fighting over there now. I also find it ironic, but completely in character, that he claims a bunch of people seeking refuge and sanctuary are a threat to our democracy, while ever single expert testified that they are not a threat to our country. I tend to believe the experts who have been on the front lines, and behind enemy lines, when it comes to security, rather than someone who claimed his personal Vietnam was chasing skirts. What an insult to our veterans who fought over there, while he, like GW, dodged the draft.
Obama wasn’t perfect, and I disagreed with many of his policies, but at least he had policies instead of tweets designed to distract people from focusing on the past lies he’s fed us. He also turned the economy around and got many back to work. I do want to point out that the GM deal was actually started by GW, so he gets a point for that, but fixing something you broke isn’t really that great an accomplishment.
A wall should be built to keep ME out. Have you seen or heard me lately. Scary!
I love how alot of you people know so much about the southern border i got one question for you all and especially Scott Erb, when was the last time you was at the border, i use to go there every other week, i have see the problems there, amd it’s mess up and that’s putting it mildly so until you been there how can you commit on this
Sorry “Me” the arrogance of saying “I saw the border so only I can comment” is an example of fallacious and dishonest reasoning. No one sees the whole issue just getting glimpses of the border. Indeed, it is more likely you get a warped view only seeing and interpreting what you see through your own beliefs. The way to understand it is to examine evidence, and look at information that goes far beyond what any one person can see. Sure, you can use your experience to explain your position, but if you’re so arrogant as to think that gives you the answer and everyone else has to shut up – well, I’ll laugh in your face at that!
Also, “Me” even if your reasoning was right (it’s not, as I just demonstrated), trying to claim personal expertise when using an alias is lame. Anyone can post that they’ve done anything under an alias.
I stand by comparison. People who point out that immigrants, like any other population, have some criminals are making a point that is meaningless. It’s an irrational effort at demonization and fear mongering, and when people use it they need to be called out on the carpet for such dishonest tactics. Unless you want to stop ALL immigration, you’ll have some criminals enter, most enter legally. But most criminals are home grown.
Scott, when I first saw ” me’s ” comment I was almost certain your response was going to contain the word
” data “. Thanks for being so unpredictable. :)
As Mr. Erb has pointed out it is important when discussing topics like this that there be some factual information to work with. So, I’ve attached a couple of links that have some very serious arguments and reasoning to prove that “The Wall” is a mistake and a distraction. The first link is to an extremely well researched article (Immigration, Building a Wall, and Hispanic Crime) by Ron Unz, whose website publishes many articles that are on the very Right side of the picture. The difference between him and Donald Trump is he knows something and can prove it! The information to understand this topic cannot be disseminated in a few tweets.
It’s long, a good read to help churn the discussion. And it’s not written by one of those evil libs!
The second link is to an article about what two sheriffs who have been protecting the border for many years are seeing and their thoughts on the situation.
No-one in these articles is anonymous, authors or subjects.
In the military you learn about tactical advantage. If your enemy has to go over an obstacle, it slows them down. If they have to go around an obstacle it funnels them to where it’s easier to confront and neutralize them. Either way an obstacle gives you a tactical advantage. Allowing you to focus resources into smaller areas and maximizing the effectiveness of a smaller force. How can any rational person dispute the effectiveness of a wall, fence or natural barrier? Use your heads people, it’s not that hard to understand.
The only ones I listen to concerning wall or no wall are the men and women who serve our country as Border Patrol Agents and they all say we need walls in certain areas. BUILD THE WALL!!
@Michael Breault “As Mr. Erb has pointed out it is important when discussing topics like this that there be some factual information to work with. ” Yes, and the only link Mr. Erb has posted to bolster his opinions was to his own blog. To me that seems a bit self-promoting.
Thank you “Perspective” for wondering and searching for links that I mentioned. Please don’t blame Mr. Erb for the missing links. They were missing from my post. I am including them again.
UNZ.com – Immigration Building a Wall and Hispanic Crime
GlobalResearch.ca – Texas Border Sheriff’s: There is no Crisis and we don’t want Trump’s Wall
Well “Perspective”, it would seem we should ask our esteemed Editor/Moderator why the links are missing.
I’ve updated the last comment to add some words to the links so they’ll appear.
You need to highlight existing text before hitting the link button, otherwise it won’t appear in the comment. Alternately, you can link to something, then add text in between the (/a) tags.
An example.