On July 2nd, 1863, the soldiers of the 20th Maine Volunteer Infantry regiment—out of ammunition and facing a series of furious confederate attacks–fixed their bayonets and charged. Led by Bowdoin professor and Maine native Joshua L. Chamberlain, they routed the rebel attackers and secured the Little Round Top, a moment considered pivotal to the Union victory at the Battle of Gettysburg.
I now imagine what Chamberlain and his men would think to see a business in their very own Maine flying the noxious flag of both slavery and open rebellion against the United States of America. The owners of Grant Lee’s Tavern in Farmington are surely aware of the history of Maine during the Civil War, and surely also aware of the meaning and significance of the Confederate battle flag, which makes it all the more upsetting that they would choose to fly it next to their restaurant’s entrance…right along Rt. 27 where it is seen not only by locals, but thousands of tourists en route to Sugarloaf and Saddleback. What an embarrassment!
Racists and Confederate apologists will try to claim that the confederate flag is a symbol not of slavery, but of state’s rights, cultural heritage, or any other number of things. But don’t believe it. The only right the confederate states were fighting for was the right to hold slaves. The only heritage the flag recalls is the heritage of the plantation. That it is still flown in the south is bad enough, but that it should fly in the home state of Lt. Col. Chamberlain is a disgrace.
In this free and great nation, the owners of Grant Lee’s have the right to fly whatever flag they wish. And I have the right to boycott their establishment until they remove it. I encourage all others who love their town and country to do the same.
Daniel Salerno
Farmington, Maine
The restaurant Grant Lee’s, is only setting a theme and I dare say teaching us a bit about our history. It seems many would rather choose to sweep bits of our history under the carpet then to realize that all the good points and bad points are what collectively make us the nation we are today. The confederate flag is a part of our history. Yes to some it is a symbol of slavery and bigotry, and to others a symbol of states rights, and to others like myself a reminder of a part of our history. I eat at Grant Lee’s as often as I can. I enjoy the history lesson I get from looking over the civil war artwork, and I dare say great food. Now people of course have the right to eat anyplace they choose, but to in one moment that a restaurant is supporting slavery and bigotry simply for flying a flag which is a part of our nations history is in my opinion short sighted. It is better we learn and embrace the lessons of our past then to hide them away in the hopes that history does not repeat itself. I also wish to add that I have met the owners of Grant Lee’s and found them to be kind compassionate human beings with a love for history. It is a love I share, and encourage anyone with an open mind to visit and find out for themselves what this restaurant is all about.
One trip inside Grant Lee’s would reveal the fantastic food, a warm atmosphere, an appreciation for all aspects of the Civil War’s complex histories evident, welcoming people . . .
. . . and the availability of Chamberlain Pale Ale.
Boycott if you must. Perhaps open yourself to a private conversation with the owners before a public condemnation of the business in the future?
I wonder if Mr. Salerno is offended by young men and women walking around with Che Guevara t-shirts and the U of M hosting left wing causes such as ending the Cuban Embargo which are more recent events which glorify the murder and enslaving of the Cuban population by Guevara and Castro murderers. It amazes me that there are people that ignore the current problems in lieu of trashing the history of this great country. If you concerned citizens want to boycott something then you should boycott Citgo, the company owned by the Communist/Socialist Hugo Chavez who a self proclaimed enemy of the United States.
Great point Blair! I’m going to open up a World War II themed restaurant and fly a Nazi Flag outside!
I boycott java Joe’s because the have an Obama sticker on their door.
People can spend their hard earned money any way they want, at the end capitalism is boss!
I think Blair nailed the response here.
Dear Mr. Fenning, History is a valuable tutor and one which, like you, I am eager to always find interesting & absorbing. The test of time has clearly proven that the sole premise of secession for the confederate states of 1861 was, albeit under the guise of states rights, simply to preserve & perpetuate the “Southern Way of Life”. A way of life founded, forged & often brutally perpetuated by fortunate land barons upon the backs of imported slave labor. The Stars & Bars were then & clearly are still to many, a physical representaion of that philosophy. As I’m sure you must know, hundreds of thousdands of poor white southern farm boys gave their lives & limbs in an attempt to preserve that way of life for a privileged few. The Confederate flag of 1861 was just that, a symbol of country, home & heart. That which must be defended against the “northen Invaders” Something around which to rally the troops. Little different than most patriotic Americans feel about the Stars & Stripes. The Confederate flag of 2012 however, has come to mean something completely different. Since your last name does not end in a vowel, I dare say you have never had the misfortune to experience predjudice first hand. The 2012 Stars & Bars is clearly no longer the flag of a defeated nation but the living representation of predjuice, bigotry, intollerence, hatred & white supremeacy. While I am sure that intent of Grant Lee’s is NOT to perpetuate those ideals & simply to offer history as it was, it is clear that they must have overlooked the significance of displaying an image whose meaning is so highly charged. In this current economic climate, I would think that a business of any kind might find it prudent to rethink any type of marketing which might discourage customer patronage rather than encourage it.
If Mr Fenning really thinks that flying the Stars and Bars is anything close to a “teachable moment” he’s inhaling better stuff than I’ve seen around in a while
Let’s get the kind and compassionate owners of Grant Lee’s and lovers of history some real exposure from the liberal national press on/off and media…………..it’s gonna be a long winter
Maybe MSNBC and Fox (a counter for sure) can send up crews and they can debait this whole embarrassing affair and maybe do some ice fishing before they go home, the ice should be thick ’nuff by now
For Mr Salerno’s edification, whom I tend to agree with on gen principle. I actually have stood on top of Little Round Top (really!)
“The only right the confederate states were fighting for was the right to hold slaves.”- Daniel Salerno
If this were true, the Southern states would have remained in the Union. In early 1861, Congress passed a proposed 13th amendment to the Constitution which protected slavery in the states. The amendment is commonly referred to as the Corwin amendment. President Lincoln forwarded the proposed amendment to the states for ratification.
Virginia, my home state, voted twice against secession in early 1861. Virginia did not secede until Lincoln called up troops to invade the South. In May of 1861, the secession ordinance passed in Virginia with about 85% of the vote.
You could not have said it better From Away. I think I will just buy a Nazi flag sticker and put in on the back of my truck window like so many of the fools around here that fly the flag of another former enemy of the US. And Hutch, I guess you are right, also. I boycott any event, place, ceremony honoring Ronald Reagan, the man who sold out this country and its jobs to the highest foreign bidder, and the only president, to my knowledge, who ever committed treason against his own country while in office.
The owners are southerners. They should have opened their restaurant down south where they could fly the confederate flag and the rednecks wouldnt mind.
one must consider the intent and the setting. ease up a bit,restaurant it is a theme restaurant it is kind of of like using it in a movie as a prop.
Well stated, Tom.
Java Joes is the best sandwich place around not going there because of a sticker on the door is absurd
Libertarian, Democrat, Independent, or…otherwise, according to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything “by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag.” This issue is, or at least should be, considerably apolitical in 2012.
The Confederate flag “flying,” which it is, at Grant Lee’s is a display of either poorly exercised judgment and ignorance, or to signal to the public that Grant Lee’s owners, while presumably charming and sweet, believe wholeheartedly in the values represented by the Stars & Bars.
Truly, it would be different if the flag were found within the restaurant along with the other Civil War memorabilia and artifacts, but the fact it FLIES outside the restaurant—on par with other flags—is an indicator to all of something far more sinister and troubling.
Many people probably would say Che or Castro were “nice” folks. Hell, I went to school with someone that said Sadam Hussein was his personal hero. He was, however, just “ok.”
The point is that this flag, like it or not, is a symbol of treachery, willful displacement, and some of the darkest times of this nation. If one really wanted to honor our history as a nation,they would fly the American flag, which stands for it all, wholly and truly.
Thanks for standing up for your contemporaries and America, Mr. Salerno!
Hey Rose,
Who are the many people who would say that Che and Castro are “nice” folks? Typical of the leftist liberals, ignoring the killing and enslaving of millions of people throughout the world by Communists from 1917 to present day but focusing on one short period of history in this country. I would guess that you socialists in Maine would welcome a restaurant with a gulag theme flying the hammer and sickle flag. If the man wants to fly the Confederate Flag to display the Civil War theme of his restaurant it’s advertising. That flag is part of our history along with lawn jockeys, pilgrim hats, Salem Witch Trials, Indian wars, and the Alamo. If you don’t like it too bad, you inherited this history when you were born in this country.
I agree with UMF Professor Salerno when he writes “the owners of Grant Lee’s have the right to fly whatever flag they wish. And I have the right to boycott their establishment.” Let us celebrate freedom. That is the most important thing. I celebrate that freedom. Let the owners of the restaurant fly whatever flag they want. And let people who don’t like that not patronize the place. Let Professor Salerno be free to apply what social pressure he wants by calling for a boycott of what he perceives to be offensive. I celebrate his freedom too. But , in my opinion, tolerance is what is required here. About 145 years ago the civil war ended. We are a country whole again.
I believe Professor Salerno has his history of the motivations for the Civil War a little bit off.
“I believe Professor Salerno has his history of the motivations for the Civil War a little bit off.”
Nope. Even had the north agreed to let slavery remain in the south, the southern states would have gone to war over slavery in the west.
Maybe you should read the Confederate constitution.
“The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states”
I got my intial “appreciation” of Am History (and continuing to this day) from Prof Gwil Roberts and I doubt that I still have any notes, but Prof Salerno’s “read” on the motivations for the Civil War may track strighter the Reid’s
I’m quite surprised that this embarrassment (my “take” on it) has not found its way to some out of area exposure
It wood seem to have quite a bit of potential for some late nite funny/not so funny shows, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas could use the rest
I do not disagree with Mr Salerno that yes indeed I am sure that many consider the confederate flag a symbol of hatred, slaver and bigotry. I also applaud him speaking his mind on a topic to which he has obvious emotions concerning. If this was a Klan rally in Farmington I would be there counter protesting the Klan, or whatever ignorant group happened to be using The Confederate Flag as a symbol of hatred. But Grant Lee’s has on display not just the Confederate flag, but also Flags of the Union. It is obvious to me that the intent is to create the theme for the restaurant, which is the Civil War. I also disagree with trying to apply our current moral and ethical values to another time period. I feel its best to learn the how and why of the reasoning’s of those in history then to abjectly say they are good or bad, right or wrong. The civil war was a tragic time for our nation, but I feel a necessary one to help us grow into the greatest nation that our earth has ever witnessed. It was a war that men on both sides fought and died for their beliefs. I honor the men who died on both sides, as our nation is made up of descendents of Union, Confederate, and Slave, and to dismiss abjectly any of those groups is just another form of ignorance and hatred. Yes despise slavery, bigotry, and the ignorant hatred that does continue to this day. But do not belittle the sacrifices of brave men because you disagree with an idea they where willing to die for and did die for. I am for one not offended by the Confederate flag as it is being used by Grant Lee’s. It is to me a tool to create the theme the restaurant is trying for, as well as a reminder of where are nation has come from. Again the obvious intent and display of the confederate flag in this case is not one of hatred, but of history.
http://www.grantlees.com/
This does not look to be the website of anything other then a restaurant with a civil war theme.
“Nope. Even had the north agreed to let slavery remain in the south, the southern states would have gone to war over slavery in the west.”- Dan Salerno
Pure conjecture.
The Confederate Constitution attempted to correct a number of issues from the Southern perspective. These included:
1) protected the institution of slavery
2) limited the powers of Congress to those delegated
3) forbade the use of public funds for private industry
4) forbade the use of public funds for internal commerce improvements (railroads)
5) gave the President a line item veto
6) allowed states to remove corrupt federal officials who operated within the boundaries of their state
7) allowed the states to raise revenue for the improvements to ports/harbors
Mike Thomas
Bob,
As Che and Casteo had allies, I’m positive someone, somewhere, liked these individuals. You’re a bit narrow-minded to suggest otherwise.
Beyond your unctuous argumentative strategy that deflects from the real issue at hand most ignorantly, the fact remains that flying a flag is a fundamentally symbolic act whereby individuals express whatever beliefs are represented by the flag. A flag is a symbol. A flag is a representation of an idea. If you need more guidance as to the definition of symbol, please consult the Merriam-Webster.
The Confederate flag is a symbol for slavery, rebellion based upon the principles of slavery, and the oppression of fellow human beings among other things (none of these ideals have anything to do with states’ rights). Passersby on their way to Saddleback or Sugarloaf can’t—nor should it be suggested that they do— receive “context” in their brief observations of the flag. Again, a flag is a representation of ideals and therefore is not intended to be flown in context. A flag cannot be flown in context. The idea that it could fundamentally defeats the intended purpose of flag flying.
Therefore, it painfully obvious that the flag should either be placed indoors to adhere more closely to said context or removed if the owners of Grant Lee’s are not intending to advertise that they, or those frequenting their establishment, subscribe to the belief system for which the flag stands.
If you think otherwise, I urge you to register for more high school or even college-level education.
I, nevertheless, believe you are a bit off. Slavery was an important issue, but so was nullification and other complaints too. Most of the soldiers in the confederate army were not slave holders. There were other reasons. To boil it all down to the slavery issue is a mistake. It is too narrow.
Okay, point about the Confederacy standing for “nullification and other complaints too” accepted, but:
“Most of the soldiers in the confederate army were not slave holders…”
Out of curiosity, how many Presidents, congresspeople, senators, government officials or “90-whatever per centers” send their kids to fight America’s wars?
How many disenfranchised, lower income, can’t-find-any-other-work-but-this-to-support-my-family individuals do you know who are soldiers? Regular joes. People who are patriotic, sure, them too, but not usually those doing the fighting are not those whose issues and values are the crux of the conflict. Hence hierarchy.
Of course most slaveholders didn’t fight in the war. Sorry, but that’s a big duh.
Great letters Blair. The poor buggers who died there did not own slaves. Most of them did’nt even own shoes. They were forced to protect the interests of rich,greedy powerful men. Much like the Bush/Cheney/Haliburton,et al war in Iraq. And every other war fot that matter. It’s always the rich mans war but the poor man’s fight. Thousands of union troops died as a result rancid,poisened food a nd shoddy weapons,clothes,and equipment happily sold to the govt. by rich,greedy businesses. Should we boycott all business?
The confederate battle flag was designed to distinguish it from the north’s so troops wouldn’t be confused in battle and rush to the wrong colors. Nothing more To those who think it is a symbol of slavery;maybe to you but not to the poor brave men who fought under it.
Let’s not re fight the civil war. Haven’t we more pressing concerns? I intend to eat at GrantLees as often as my budget will allow. They are good and decent folks and don’t deserve this cowardly and dishonest vitriol.
GrantLee’s 20th Maine
Tavern & Grill™
Free Appetizer
(excludes combo’s)
With Purchase Of Two Entree’s
offer expires March 30th, 2012
Our Mission
Here at GrantLee’s™, our mission is two fold. Not only do we want to provide our visitors a good meal at a reasonable price, we also take pride in the fact that our visitors can learn about an important part of our contry’s history. A wise man once said: “Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.
Professor Salerno, take a look at what Mike Thomas wrote up above. He confirms what I was referring to. There were other issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH9bVRAe4NE
This was just four years ago.
“Therefore, it painfully obvious that the flag should either be placed indoors to adhere more closely to said context or removed if the owners of Grant Lee’s are not intending to advertise that they, or those frequenting their establishment, subscribe to the belief system for which the flag stands.”
Respectfully, What I see when I see the Confederate Flag is a flag from my nations history. Of course I am aware that others see it differently, but this entire conversation seems to have drifted away from the more then obvious attempt at a restaurant at portraying a civil war themed atmosphere. The vibe I am getting is a more current political vibe. I agree we all have our own political views, but attempts for any of us to say that they have the only answer is naive, and I dare say childish. This subject will not be solved here, and I am very sure many other viewpoints have yet to present themselves as of yet but to just off hand say that anyone who disagrees with a persons view is in your words supporting> “subscribe to the belief system for which the flag stands” ” If you think otherwise, I urge you to register for more high school or even college-level education”<
If anything you undercut your own argument by spewing intolerance. in short guilty of some of the most disgusting ideals held by the Confederacy. That one human being is higher then another.
I do respect very much the fact that this is a public and open discussion, but let us stay on the topic and respect each others views.
Remeber what the provost said. “It is just a symbol, but you don’t fight for symbols”
Jewish eradication wasnt the only reason for the world war 2. Most third reich soldiers didn’thave anything to do with death camps.
Blair,
I know you’re a big fan of another army of intolerant killers: the Crusaders!
Rose is absolutely right that flying a flag is very different from displaying it as a museum piece. If you do not understand that, it is you who needs more education. Again I ask you, would you feel comforRtable with Patton Rommel’s tavern flying the flag of the Third Reich? Maybe theming a restaurant after a war is a bad idea altogether. The horror of the Civil War is cheapened by redneck kitsch and mozzarella sticks.
Here is a suggestion. The restaurant could hang the flag of the Confederacy outside and put the Confederate BATTLE FLAG (which is different and seems to be the inflamatory symbol) inside to help establish the atmosphere.
All the negative responses have given the restaurant plenty of free advertising!
Do the flags of other nations flying over the Olsen Student Center mean that UMF agrees with everything done by those countries?
BF Sr.,
Yes, it is doubtless anything of true significance will come from this insular discourse. However, I urge you to read what I’ve composed above regarding flag flying, which is an activity indicative of one publicly displaying beliefs via the use of simple symbolism.
I’m sorry that the confederate flag only evokes feeling of history, nationalism, and downright American pride for you. It is true that the flag serves as a symbol of American history, but as another pointed out above, so does the flag of the Third Reich for Nazi Germany, and flying that flag would arguably be abhorrent to us all (I hope!).
These flags hold inescapable meaning, and saying otherwise because you think it, doesnt make it so. Those who deny that flying a flag…FLYING it…where strangers see it passing by, where it greets people pulling to and from the parking lot…is not innocuous behavior, deny it is assertive, don’t understand the basic principles of flying a flag.
Such sayings as “let your freak flag fly” were invented for a reason. Flags are a public proclamation, they show others what one stands for. To me, seeing a confederate flag outside the walls of any establishment, gives me a clear signal of the promotion and adherance to racist activites and ideals regardless of what is actually the case. If someone is merely driving past in their vehicle, they won’t be checking the Internet for a description of Grant Lee restaurant, they’ll simply just feel horrified, betrayed, and confused. The flag should be brought indoors…at the very least, taken from it’s pole. In other words, no FLYING.
My truest apologies if my further education comment seems short-sighted or offensive. My meaning is to suggest that if one cannot grasp the simple definition of a symbol, then one ought to seek further instruction. I feel the comment is fair enough indeed. And no, it doesn’t speak to the intolerance you claim I’m “arguing” against…as if that’s even an argument to be had. Seeking further education leads to deeper understanding and capability for compassion and a more global point-of view. My feeling is if someone cannot see that flying a confederate flag is wrong (displaying in context with other items of historical significance, fine), then perhaps they need to gain some further perspective. Education is the most effective tool proven to aid with that.
From Away
“I know you’re a big fan of another army of intolerant killers: the Crusaders!”
I will make it no secret that I admire the Knights of old. I will also say that as with any other human en devour these knights had failings. But as for myself I do all I can in many ways to uphold honor, and duty and virtue. And in that I do not hide behind a false name. And spew venom. You wish to judge those of the past with your own judgement, and ethical standards, and yet who sits in judgement of your hidden actions? Would I want to glorify the Third Reich? Anyone who knows me personally already knows this answer. The Nazi’s where cold blooded Killers, and monsters on a level of depravity only surpassed by communists. I see that my attempts at rational debate fall on deaf ears. The tried and true method of attacking the individual and their beliefs, instead of the merit of the discussion at hand rears its head. What do you wish of me? to say I am a christian, well I do consider myself such. To say I admire the fighting men throughout history for having the courage to stand fight and die for their beliefs,. That is also true of me. It is also true that I am a mere man, with my own opinion; but I have done all I can to respect the differing opinions offered here. I will say that yes in the Civil war there was horror. There was also sacrifice, honor, and courage. All I see here is the usual political correctness rearing its ugly head in an attempt to crush any and all who disagree with it, or whom refuse to conform to its elitist standards. I stand by my name, and my beliefs and my argument the the matter at hand is a matter of history and not hate. And ask you “from away” to be introspective of yourself, and your convictions.
I think Mr Salero’s letter is just an attempt to anger sane and rational people. Iwas ust heading out to the Chinese restaurant but now I recall them slaughtering and torturing thousands of our troops during the Korean war. So much for Chinese. I believe I will go to Grant Lee’s.
Chose your battles more carefully next time Mr Salerno. Or have you already learned that?
Ron,
Flying the Confederate Battle Flag is not like flying the flag of Portugal. The Confederate Battle Flag is specifically associated with both an ideology and a way of life that most civilized people find repulsive.
I guarantee you no one would get away with flying this flag in the Old Port in Portland.
“My feeling is if someone cannot see that flying a confederate flag is wrong (displaying in context with other items of historical significance, fine), then perhaps they need to gain some further perspective. Education is the most effective tool proven to aid with that.”
Somehow, anyone that does not agree with your point of view requires further education, or is that indoctrination. I have three college degrees including a BS from the US Naval Academy and I have sufficiently read the historical record to form my own opinions. I encourage everyone to read the historical record, but to do so without the emotional precepts of modern society.
Mike Thomas
C’Mon people. It’s just a flag, one of many that are suporting a theme that some would erase from our history. If you are truly offended by it, you must live a very narrow existance. If the world revolved around everything anyone found offensive, there would be nothing left for anyone to think, or say, or do. The fact is, someone is offended by everything. IT’S A FLAG. THAT’S IT. GET OVER IT.
The idea that one flag of the confederacy is offending and another is not?? You can’t come to this through reason. You are upset because some group you don’t agree with has chosen to use it as their symbol. This is not the confederacy. If it was, you should, by extension, be offended by other flags or anything associated with the confederacy. People against the display are probably liberals with a guilt complex who cannot come to terms with the fact that our ancestors practiced slavery. IT HAPPENED. A LONG TIME AGO. GET OVER IT.
Surely there something more important to get worked up over.
From Away,
You are correct, this is not Portland, and locals are not idiots that need to make Portland happy or be judged by Portland standards. The owners have opened an eatery themed as they see fit, The Civil War, and display items from both sides. I am not a racist, bigot, or any other type hideous person, and see it as just that- a theme eatery.
I don’t think people are upset with Portugal, but the regimes in Syria, Sudan, Iran and other countries responsible for the death of it’s own people by the masses is offensive to many. I find the systematic tourture ,rape and killing of “rival factions” and persons not agreeing with the ruling parties offensive, but don’t believe that UMF is for them.
” The Nazi’s where cold blooded Killers”
My grandfather–a Jewish American soldier of Eastern European descent who spoke English, Yiddish and German–was captured by Nazi soldiers briefly in 1945, after D-Day when he got lost on a patrol. The Germans, with whom he could converse, walked him back to the American camp and exchanged him for some cigarettes.
Your average German soldier during WWII was probably no more of a cold blooded evil killer than your average allied soldier. As those defending the Confederacy have pointed out above, the average joe in any war has very little to do with the political system he is fighting for. When we see a swastika we don’t think of the average men fighting for their lives or, for that matter, for the poor innocent people of Dresden killed by the thousands in Allied firebombing. We think of the Nazi political ideology, we think of the movement’s leaders, and we think of the atrocities committed by the movement as a whole.
Of course I understand that most confederate soldiers were poor SOBs who didn’t deserve to die and had next to nothing. There is a dignified way to honor their memories, however, and it is not by FLYING the flag of the twisted political ideology they fought for. A more dignified display indoors would do a better job of not confusing the historian’s purpose with the ideologue’s.
You are also correct that we cannot blindly superimpose the mores of the present on the people of the past. But, remember, the architects of the confederacy were being judged IN THEIR OWN TIME by those who had come to hold a more just and enlightened viewpoint: not simply the abolitionists of the north, but the vast majority of the western world which had outlawed slavery decades earlier. Even medieval England had no slaves. Hell, medieval canon lawyers in the 11th century knew that slavery was evil!
Dear Rose,
Further education from where, some left wing socialist institution that employs teachers who have never worked for a living nor have any life experience outside their school? I don’t need you or your condescending suggestions to know what a flag is. I am a veteran, a college graduate with a B.A., but what’s most important is that I have life experience in the real world outside of Maine. It’s obvious that you think that a college education makes people better then those that don’t. I have lived, worked with, and served with people from the south who are proud of their southern heritage and display the Confederate Flag. They are not racist and are religious, law abiding citizens of this country. It is obvious that you elitists are the prejudice ones who have clearly displayed your ignorance through these posts.
I’ve been keeping a close eye on this conversation for the last day, and though many may think for the simple fact that I am a UMF student means that I have to agree with everything that seems, well, young. However I’m going to agree with most the people here and Mr Blair. I have been to grant lees several times, and to be honest with you the confederate flag has never bothered me, that however is not saying that it doesn’t bother others. All I know is that that flag created more of an atmosphere for the civil war. I push the point that this is a Civil war themed restaurant, not a Union themed restaurant, to ignore the culture of the south would do no justice to those who fought against it.
Let us be honest, anyone who has ‘deeply studied that time would know for a fact that many people in the northern states also owned slaves, and alot of major business owners then were against the idea of getting rid of theirs slaves. Two sides of a coin basically. I mean come now, George Washington owned slaves yet we revere the man.
I suppose that I am just ranting and that my point has been made, but nothing I say would make more sense than this quote.
“Those who forget the passed are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana
Rose,
As I stated in my earlier post, someone is offended by everything. I learned long ago that people all have different views on what is right/just/moral. It’s OK that you are offended. I get it and I’m OK with it. But suggesting that I’m somehow wrong/stupid/immoral/uneducated/etc. because I’m not offended is more wrong.
When you try to establish a standard that everyone should be offended, or they must “obviously” need to be educated you are showing your ignorance of the basic fact I mention above. It is impossible to draw a line and say everything over this line is wrong. Many people believe you’ve gone too far, many not enough.
I lived in the south for 20 years, and I find the level of intolerance for differing opinions that you display a far greater evil than anything I saw during my time in the south. AND I was in South Carolina during the debate that resulted in the movement of the flag from the statehouse to the civil war memorial. Because of this, I feel infinitely qualified to discuss this matter. It was a contentious/passionate debate and people on each side felt justified in the opinion/outcome they wanted to force on the other side.
No Rose,
Blair, Bill, myself, and others here don’t need educating, you need to get out of Maine and see the rest of the world, meet other peoples and cultures, and learn to understand and respect other peoples points of view.
Mr. Flemming and All,
I would like to thank everyone for their passionate opinions. I would also like to apologize if we offended anyone by flying the confederate battle flag in front of our establishment. Our only intension was to combine an important part of our history with our themed restaurant. The Civil War theme has been a passion of mine for many years and all I wanted to do was make people aware of the struggle the country went through 150 years ago. A few years back, I met a young man who when I asked who won the Civil War said “we did”. When I asked him who he meant by “we”, he said, “you know, the white people”. This was a driving force for me and I felt it would be good to help educate our youth and anyone else who didn’t know our history. I also take some pride in teaching our young restaurant staff and our visitors who come in some Civil War trivia, all of which are factual and not my or anyone’s opinions and it also does my heart good when a few of the kids decided to do term papers on the Civil War as it peaked their interest in the our nation’s struggle. I was born and raised in the northeast and although I lived in the south for a number of years, I am what I consider to be a true blue northerner (my daughter and I occasionally battle it out as she was born in the south during our stay south of the Mason Dixon). My years in the south did expose me to some good southern cooking and bbq and with me being an amateur civil war buff, I only wanted to combine my interest in the Civil War with my dream of owning a restaurant. Again, I apologize if we offended anyone as it was certainly not our intention. We have decided not to fly the confederate battle flag outside our restaurant to avoid hurting feelings. I would like to invite everyone to visit us and see for themselves that we are not intending to make any form of statement other than that of keeping our history alive. Our logo has both General Grant and General Lee sitting at a table (at Appomattox Court House) enjoying a cold beer and a burger with our motto: “GrantLee’s – The Place where People Come Together” and is a celebration of the end of the Civil War and our country re-uniting once again.
This restaurant is a THEME restaurant. It was opened because of someone’s passion about the Civil War. If the Confederate Flag was the only flag flown outside this business, I could see your point Mr. Salerno. As I have not been there, I am going to assume that they fly the US flag and the Confederate flag. I have taken the time to review the menu, (http://www.grantlees.com/Bar_and_Grill_Farmington_ME.html) and the names of the dishes are derived from the North and the South relatively equally. From what descriptions there are, this is an attempt to give people a look at life during the time of the Civil War, and perhaps a taste of the food.
A story from the Sun Journal (http://m.sunjournal.com/connections/story/1018049) gives mention of Grant Lee’s setting up a food stand during a Civil War reenactment. I am sure that during said reenactment the Confederate Flag was flown for all to see. If we were to follow Mr. Salerno’s ideas, the men who were portraying the South during this reenactment are racist, and only wished to uphold the ideas of slavery.
I am appalled that a University Professor with a PhD would have such a narrow minded view about the Civil War. Yes, slavery was an issue in the Civil War, but there are many others. ((Here are a few http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm)) I would be delighted to sit in one of your lectures and see what you are teaching the students at the University of Maine at Farmington.
I am saddened to see what is happening in our country. So few are causing issue for those who understand the true meaning behind what is seen. This restaurant was designed around two ideas. Love of a particular time period, and wanting a business venture. The using of a symbol to show people what your restaurant is about is not wrong. You fall just short of calling the owner of Grant Lee’s a racist Mr. Salerno.
I grew up in Springfield, Illinois. The place that Abraham Lincoln grew up and began his rise to the Presidency of the United States of America. All of my life I have been inundated with stories and facts about the Civil War and Lincoln’s Presidency. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I do not see a representative of slavery and hatred as you do. I am filled with pride that the Northern Part of the United States, the states that remained in the Union, stood together as one and cast down those who would see to destroy the great nation we live in today.
I will leave you all with a short quote:
“The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly.”
Richard Bach
@ FTown Bryan- you totally nailed it.
@GrantLees- I’m sorry that you caved to pressure from people who you can’t please and won’t patronize your establishment anyway, but I respect your right to make your own decision and run your restaurant the way you see fit. I wish your business the very best success.
Well that was a piece of free publicity for Grantlee’s. Boycott? It is not like there are dozens of restaurants to choose from here in Farmington. Now THAT is a good topic of conversation..getting a quality restaurant or two in Farmington!
Well, there.
Another victory for someone sitting around with nothing better to do than worry about what everyone else is thinking and doing.
Here’s a guy just trying to make a living and enjoy himself and someone comes along with an agenda and fires up the great political machine and injects a whole crapper load of “this is what I like, so you ought to like it too” and starts messing with trhe innocent guys life and living.
If you don’t like what you see, don’t look! Why do you people think that everyone has to have the same wants, need, thoughts and values?
Hope you’re happy Mr. Salerno, you did what you came out to do. Now you can sit back and revel in the glory of a fight well fought and won right here on the good old internet.
Do me a favor and don’t ever come to my neighborhood!
I have noticed that this newspaper, favors the current white house occupiers. Thus anyone who questions the high priest or his relatives, do not get the chance to voice their opinion. Does this newspaper know that it will be shut down to one reporter, who will be told what to write by the white house? Keep defending the current admin. and watch this paper fail to be a local sorce of info. I truley believe that this paper will be thrown under the bus by dumbama. I am saddened that this paper has fallen to the influence of dumbama and only allows good things to be said about him. I am happy though that soon this paper will be burdened with the extra money needed to pay the one reporter who MUST be a union member. Too bad and goodbye Daily Bulldog.
The business of business is business. Flying a Confederate flag outside one’s business — for whatever reason — is a risky business move: is it likely to attract customers or will it repel them? Will it generate positive reactions, neutral, or negative? The exact same thing is true of the Obama support sticker on the front door of Java Joe’s. It’s a business’ decision to take the action and the consumers’ decision as to whether or not to patronize the business.
Not sure if the owners of Grant Lee’s or Java Joe’s ever considered the possible negative reaction to their business decisions. They may well have weighed the likely impact (to the best of their abilities) and made a conscious business decision to do what they did. Regardless, it’s their right to do so.
What I want to know, as a neutral consumer, is how good is Grant Lee’s smoked brisket and how tasty are Java Joe’s coffee and bagels. As a consumer, I choose not to boycott either business, but that’s my decision.
GrantLee’s has made a business decision and that is fine with me. I have no burning desire to see the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (in which four of my great-great grandfathers served) used for commercial purposes. The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was a soldiers’ flag— it never flew above goverment buildings or represented the government of the Confederacy. And by the way, I prefer my BBQ Lexington style (that woud be Lexington, NC).
Mike Thomas
Big Freakin deal. With all the other real problems and issues we have here in Maine , Dan here has a problem with a flag. Leave the guy alone. Its his business and if enough people dont like it,he will probably take it down, if most people dont give a hoot, thats fine too. Somebody has too much time on their hands I would say.
Wow, so much vitriol. I wonder how different this comment thread would be if Farmington weren’t 99.99999% white.
First, I’d like to thank the owners of Grant Lee’s for making what I think is the right decision. The confederate battle flag is obviously an artifact of American history and can be displayed tastefully as part of a historical exhibit. In my opinion, however, that display should not take the form of flying the flag in front along a busy road in the heart of the old union, where its prominence might cause confusion about the nature of our town. I think displaying the flag somewhere inside as part of a display of memorabilia is appropriate.
Also, I’m looking forward to bringing my family to the restaurant to try the BBQ. As a native of New Jersey I might not be the most discriminating consumer of southern specialties, but I do know what looks good. And their BBQ looks darn good.
Now, as to the “substance” of the attacks against me:
Are people blind to the fact that the Confederate battle flag has come to prominently feature in the symbology of white supremacist, neo nazi, and neo confederate movements? There is a reason for that. You can bleat all you’d like about how there were “other issues” floating around during the Civil War–obviously–but it is fairly indisputable that had both North and South shared identical views on slavery, no war would have been fought. I’ve previously asserted, and history would back me here, that the real conflict was not over the nature of the North and South, but whether Southern values (slavery) would be exported to new American territories in the West. I’m grateful my union ancestors (figurative ancestors: my family came from Italy and Eastern Europe in the early 20th century) took up arms to prevent the spread of that vile practice. Revisionist and apologist claims about the secondary nature of slavery as a casus belli are pure bunk. I can only laugh when I see a post like Mike Thomas’s: yes, sure, the Civil War was fought over line item vetos and funding for ports and harbors, got it.
And now to address the bizarre rantings of Evan Van Huss:
“I am appalled that a University Professor with a PhD would have such a narrow minded view about the Civil War. Yes, slavery was an issue in the Civil War, but there are many others…”
Right wingers are all opposed to “moral relativism” until it suits them. They would have us believe there are lots of gray areas when it comes to abolitionists vs. anti-abolitionists, merely for the sake of culture-warrior identity politics. And, to paraphrase poster From Away, I assume you would agree with the following: there were many issues in World War 2 besides eradication of the Jews. Therefore it’s o.k. to fly a Nazi flag outside my WW2 themed restaurant.
“I would be delighted to sit in one of your lectures and see what you are teaching the students at the University of Maine at Farmington.”
Mostly medieval and Renaissance literature. You’re welcome any time.
“You fall just short of calling the owner of Grant Lee’s a racist Mr. Salerno.”
A vicious, pernicious lie.
“When I look at the Confederate Flag, I do not see a representative of slavery and hatred as you do. I am filled with pride that the Northern Part of the United States, the states that remained in the Union, stood together as one and cast down those who would see to destroy the great nation we live in today.”
Am I the only one that doesn’t understand this? How can you look at the confederate flag and see all of those things, but not slavery. That is simply stubborn and willful blindness. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WERE FIGHTING ABOUT? Why, exactly, were men seeking to destroy this nation? To protect their right to own slaves. Period. End of Story.
I’ll leave you with a quote from the Battle Hymn of the Republic:
“As He died to make men holy, let us die to make them free.”
What do you think the Hymn is talking about there, Mr. Van Huss?
“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views”- Abraham Lincoln, Aug. 22, 1862
Mike Thomas
Dan Salerno
January 9, 2012 • 9:39 am .Wow, so much vitriol. I wonder how different this comment thread would be if Farmington weren’t 99.99999% white.
Fact is, Farmington is 99% white, so the comments are what the comments are. Was this original rant about your dislike of the flag, your dislike of the percentage of white folks in Farmington, your love of hearing yourself speak, or were you trying to use a teachable moment on we original, native, backwoods Farmingtonians?
If you were trying to help us with your knowledge, we’d appreciate it if you would consider it done and move along to your next mission.
Mike:
You seem to believe that dragging out that familiar old quote–which all educated individuals have read many times–proves something. You should try reading it closely.
Lincoln is saying that everything he does if for the sake of preserving the Union. What did he do one year later? He emancipated the salves. That tells you, right there, that Lincoln saw emancipation as a necessary step in preserving the Union. And he was right. A nation divided by two cultures, two laws, two moral codes, could not stand together. Lincoln understood that abolition was a historical inevitability, and he understood the need for homogeneity in the nation’s stance toward slavery: thus the necessity of emancipation.
And I have already explained why this was the case. There is no doubt that the North would have allowed the South to continue to be slaveholding states for much longer had in the interest of national stability, had it NOT been for the issue of EXPANSION of slavery westward. This was what truly lay at the heart of the conflict. In fact, opposing the expansion of slavery into Western territories was a central plank of Lincoln’s 1860 platform.
In any case, you don’t need my arguments to know that the Civil War was about slavery. Just read it from the secessionists in their own words. For instance, Mississippi’s declaration of secession:
http://www.civil-war.net/pages/mississippi_declaration.asp
“Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery – the greatest material interest of the world.”
There is not a thing in there about line item vetos.
Of course, he emancipated the slaves. Not the salves. Oops.
Ed,
My concerns were as stated in the letter. I’m happy about the outcome. Thanks for your thoughts.
Mr. Salerno,
The Abraham Lincoln quote specifically states that the preservation of the Union was the only factor Lincoln felt was important. The war did not start because the Union government felt compelled to free the slaves due to some moral superiority. The Southern states felt they were within their rights to secede for whatever reason— be it slavery, the line-item-veto, or in the case of Virginia, the threat of armed invasion. The Union lost the consent of the governed and conducted total war to force the Southern states back into the Union.
Presently, there is an independence movement in Vermont. If the citizens of Vermont choose to leave the Union, so be it.
Mike Thomas
Mike Thomas
All this over a flag…come on…..we still have the ways of slavery…it is just we pay them…how many bring migrant worker in to this state to get their crops out…isn’t that what started slavery…the war was not just about black mans freedom..if it were why did it take a hundren years before they could vote?……..look at apples, bluererries..wood harvesting..and lets not forget those wreaths we send to Arlington…who is getting the job done …we bus workers in… .we house them and pay them well … the thing is they get to bring the money home…….don’t give a guy a hard time for making a living, he is working……history does repeat, it is the words that change and give the impression things are different…
“But suggesting that I’m somehow wrong/stupid/immoral/uneducated/etc. because I’m not offended is more wrong.”
Unfortunately, my suggestion was far from what is quoted above. Anger and outrage has probably blinded any ability to interpret the real meaning (or perhaps you or someone else didn’t even read what was written and just decided to attack me because I disagree; in which case I ask, “Who is the intolerant one?”). My statements indicate encouragement: if someone cannot understand what a symbol or flag flying really means, they should seek assistance (especially before entering a debate on the subject). Of course, I would never expect everyone to agree with me. That’s super stupid. There’s nothing wrong with HEALTHY debate and there is certainly nothing wrong with asking for help. I’m not a Maine native, sorry to disappoint you, but kudos for boxing me into whatever limits your imagination has condemned you to.
I’m happy with the outcome of Mr. Salerno’s editorial, and I’m very happy that the restaurant owners recognize the difference between flying a flag and simply displaying one. I’m sure it will find a happy home indoors, in context, with the other fine memorabilia of GrantLee’s Tavern. Its removal eliminates confusion and fear. Some may have stated that there are other problems in the world needing remedy, but social awareness is a large part of the foundation for any strong community and I commend the owners of GrantLee’s for doing the right thing.
I went to highschool in the South, Robert E. Lee highschool to be more specific. Our school flag was the Confederate flag. However in the early 90’s it was thought to be distasteful and disrespectful to fly the “stars and bars” at the school, sporting events, etc. So the students at the school prompted the action of replacing the flag. Knowing that a school of teenagers could understand the reaction that this flag causes, but adult business owners could not made me cringe every time I drove by this business. I am very happy to see that the owners have decided to make this change!
So sad, in 2012, theres still people out there with so much ignorance of this country’s history. And for a college professor to be so narrow minded, blows me away. I know the owners of GrantLee’s Tavern & Grill. They are by no means predjudice, southern sympatizers, pro-slavery or ignorant! Here’s a man who has worked his ENTIRE life to support his family. The risk he has taken by opening a restaurant in the first place (with the economy the way it is) i commend him! Then you have people (who haven’t even taken the time to sit down and see HIS point of view) down grade his business… Boycott if you want – i doubt they miss your business. All these people want to do is educate their customers. So many people go into that place and come out having learned something they didnt know before they walked in. The menu has actual facts about the Civil War, the artifacts on the walls, even the children’s menu has fun facts that EDUCATE!!! I have lived in south for many years, and honestly, Ive come across more people who are prejudice here in Maine then Florida, Tennessee, Virginia, etc… Theres people here that I know who have never left the state of Maine who proudly fly the Stars and Bars, have stickers on their truck windows, even have tattoos of the Stars and Bars. Yes, there are people who fly that flag with the wrong intentions, Southerners AND Northerners. Is it sad? Yes. Do I agree with it? No. Does that make me look at the Stars and Bars differently?? No. That flag is a part of history. It stood for a group of people that didnt agree with another groups opinions and laws. Today some people fly it because they are proud to be a redneck. Some people fly it because they are just proud to be a Southerner. Some people stick it on their truck window because they go mudding every weekend and consider themselves a redneck and thats just what rednecks do. SOME people fly it because its an important part of history and it goes with their Civil War restaurant theme. Not to offend someone else, not to piss people off, to simply make a statement that they care about OUR country’s history. Its so sad that someone would boycott a place because of a ‘flag’. In my opinion, its his loss. He’s missing out on good people, great food and an atmosphere that tops any other place in Farmington. Where else can you get authentic southern BBQ, have a awesome server and learn about our country’s history? No where i can think of… KEEP FLYING YOUR FLAG GRANTLEE’S!!!!! Don’t let one person change what you’re doing for this community!
I was unaware, until after I posted, that simple things such as spacing did not appear in the posted articles, and as such could have avoided some of the bizarre in my “Bizarre rantings”. Again it seems that I am in error to be a “right winger”. I was born and raised in the Midwest, and I am a conservative.
When I look at the Confederate Flag, I do know that Slavery was one of the major factors of the Civil War. I am well aware that hate exists to this day. Do I agree with the KKK, and Neo-Nazi beliefs? No, I do not. I cannot stand hatred. Yes, I am WELL aware that this flag is used by those “groups.” I am sorry if I see things differently than yourself.
Like you, Mr Salerno, my family did not arrive in the United States until the early 20th century. I am of Irish and German heritage. I was born and raised in the Land of Lincoln. I grew up hearing the stories of the Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana Armies that went off to defend the Union. THAT is why I see the southern flag as something other that outright slavery. In my own perspective, I think of the stories that I heard about the courageous actions taken by the Union Armies. Again, it seems that I must apologize that my Worldview is different than your own.
“As He died to make men holy, let us die to make them free.” from the Battle Hymn of the Republic. Yes, one can easily see what is meant. As stated above, Lincoln and the North did not want to END slavery. They wanted to curtail it’s spread because of the 3/5ths compromise. If slavery was allowed into the new states and territories the North would be outvoted in Congress. If the North could be outvoted, then the United States would be run by the South. To claim that the war was about only slavery is false. Again, as stated previous, the North had it’s own fair share of slaves. The fact that immigrants would work for almost nothing and required no care from the employer curtailed the spread of slavery in the North. There is a wonderful book called, “The Radical and the Republican.” by James Oakes. It is a good read if you find the time, and it is a wonderful insight into the time just before the outbreak of the Civil War.
It seems from other posts the the owner of Grant Lee’s has removed the flag from display. It is his business and he may do as he likes. The Confederate Flag is not illegal to display in this country, and I am at least happy to see that the Daily Bulldog is allowing our Freedom of Speech to thrive.
As to some of the “bizarre” nature of my post last evening. People tend to say off things when impassioned. I was angry that an establishment was “called out” because of a Confederate Flag outside of a Civil War themed restaurant. Our nation is on the end of one of the worst recessions in it’s history. We can neither feed nor clothe all of the citizens of the United States, but we can raise a stink over a flag. Your opinions are your own Mr. Salerno, as my opinions are mine. I guess what I should have written last night was the following: I am saddened to hear that one of the professors of UMF is spending his time and energy trying to bring down a Confederate Flag, on private property. It would have been nice to see him comment about the plight of the destitute in his own community. Slavery was a terrible mar upon our country, and even to this day we are not completely de-segregated. There are much more important things happening here and now than a flag.
Hum. It would appear that those most harmed by the recent recession (or whatever it will be called by history) are most in favor now of accepting/flying/encouraging use of the confederate battle flag (strangely like the flag used by the tea party folk). Conceptually, that’s very consistent with the years of what is best called “the war of the rebellion”. The ruling southern wealthy “aristocrats” (we now call such folk “oligarchs” or corporate executive fascists) were able to get the generally uneducated common folk (heartily energized by patriotism and religious fervor) to fight courageously for the government system of the wealthy, and against their own interests. One could go on a long time about this. But what the hey; many responses to Salerno’s original letter are an unfortunate aspect of the information age; a massive proliferation of uninformed and hostile opinion.
You know, about a year ago, (having been active in “civil war” reinactment and historic reading for about 10 years) I suggested to the owners of GrantLee’s eatery that, instead of flying the battle flag, they would be best advised to display the “stars and bars”, the “national” flag of the short-lived confederacy. That is, if their intent was to display the flag that corresponded to the US stars and stripes, as a sort of educational display. The problem being partly that a lot of people persist in believing the battle flag was the confederate national flag. Now the battle flag too often is perverted; flown or pasted on shirts, hats, truck bumpers, motorcycles, etc. as a hostile, in-yo-face statement that I’m a tough ole bubba demanding my rights even if they interfere with yours, and will kick your butt if you don’t like it (or remind you that I’m for gun rights no matter what). I’m not sure the owners of GrantLee’s place got the point from my relatively mild comments. Dan Salerno got the point across. The bubba flack is flying, and like the bomber pilots say, the thicker the flack, the closer one is getting to the target, or the truth, as in this case.
GO ED! this guy needs to get a life and leave everyone else alone! the sign shows it perfectly…They serve both northern and southern food and those were the flags of the times… he needs a job or a hobby or something! Good grief!
I was going to comment but decided nope.
Dan has appointed himself judge, jury and executioner on this matter and is smug in the fact that the restaurant owners caved to his threat of boycott. Nothing I can add will convince him of his selfish and tyrannical means of action.
I didn’t realize this restaurant was even open, thanks to the snobs of this world trying to educate those of us not capable of making educated choices, we get to learn the most important things, like what restaurant, book or movies to go to because if the uppity don’t like it, it must be good.
I think there is a nice bbq meal in my future, several as a matter of fact.
Im sorry but I have to say this! This is so stupid over a flag..As the Prof stated..He is from New Jersey..Havent we all figured it out yet that a lot of FLAT LANDERS come here to Maine and try to run the show.
I hope that Grantlees displays it inside and then they can put the history of this flag by it so ppl understand. My God, so what, its a confederate flag..you are going to miss a great business because of this? Well your loss! Just because you may be a professor and know it all about history doesnt mean that you should be the dictator to someones business. There are a lot of other eating establishments in Farmington that will take your money, but then again, you willprobably find something offensive about there place too.,,so I have an idea…stay home!