It bothers me when I read comments from people declaring that the United States is a Christian nation.
I know it is hard for some people to accept; but we are not a Christian nation. We are not a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or atheist nation. Our Constitution gives us the right to practice any religion – whatever it might be. It does not give any group of people the right to claim the nation for themselves and impose their religious views.
The First Amendment to the Constitution plainly states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…
Thomas Jefferson called it the separation of church and state.
Wm Gilliland
Farmington
I suspect that Mr Gilliand is ready and able cope with being inundated by the turbulent flow of “alternative facts” and differing theories his letter will engender
Has the story of the ACLU representing the excommunicated atheist broke surface yet back in Franklin County?
We are most definitely a Christian Nation. Our Great Nation was not founded by muslims. Stop race baiting. Every religion can be practiced in this country and has been protected by the constitution. But, we were founded as a Christian Nation. We need to stop pushing God out of everything. God is not dead.
AYKM???
I thought I heard it all on this rag and the loyal host of really wickedly lost in space cadets. Come on, are you really just yanking all of our chains just to mess with us or are you really out there?
I’m not a bible thumper by any stretch, but even a grade schooler can clearly debunk your egregious statements…
This country was founded as a Christian Nation, and more than clearly stated by the three documents; The Declaration of Independence, the Paris Peace Treaty of 1783 and the Constitution.
You don’t need a law degree or gone to seminary to read the clearly referenced and stated affirmation to the contrary of your ill stated premise.
All three have multiple references to God, Christian values and customs. Anyone that doesn’t have an agenda and reads these three documents will see that your letter is clearly bias and or just to attempt to annoy.
When the Constitution was completed on September 17, 1787, it was signed by the delegates then to be ratified by the states. The delegates signed the Constitution in the “Year of our Lord.” This is a direct reference to Christianity.
On the Declaration of Independence, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”
In addition, the God of the Bible is whom the United States is based upon. The unalienable rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness come from the Judeo/Christian God and no one else. He is the Rock of our Republic.
Psalm 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
On Paris Peace Treaty, when the United States actually became a nation, it was done in the “name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.” The preamble to this Treaty states it is based upon the “Holy and undivided Trinity.” The concept of the holy Trinity is unique to Christianity. This statement also further demonstrates that the United States was founded on the Christian faith.
The Treaty then ends just like the Constitution with a statement it is being signed in the “Year of our Lord.” The witnesses representing the United States were John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and D. Hartley.
There are many more, but you can read it yourself.
Nuff Said…
I’m willing to bet that if a census of religions was taken today you would find that Christianity is the overwhelming religion of the United States.
Thank you for your letter Mr. Gilliland.Agreed.
It might be better said our founders created a secular state that was made up of Christians. But we are certainly Christian/western in our institutions and history. The values of the those who created this nation were Western and therefore Christian. Our founders were inundated with Enlightment views which came out of the Christian west. There even today is no equivalent in the Muslim world to the reformation or enlightenment.
Jefferson was certainly not a Theist and spoke of a “wall of separation” in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Church. Baptist being relevant because Conn. and many other states had established religions, and Connecticut ‘s wasn’t Baptist. The first amendment did not allow Congress or the Federal government to establish religious preference. It said nothing about states. In fact In Mass. it wasn’t until the 1820’s that they changed the state constitution to replicate the federal one. Jefferson got the Virginia constitution changed much earlier and in fact it was one of the accomplishments he had put on his grave stone.
The founders were a mixed bag between Deists and Theists, and not too few pastors. All were Christian/Western in history and tradition. So to say America isn’t a Christian nation is a very simplistic and historically innacurate statement. Those are the facts, “alternate” or otherwise.
My first sentence might better read the created a government that had not a single established church. After all they sought not to replicate the European nations that had seen years of war over such matters.
No Chuck the person who wrote this column is not ready and it willing to defend his position.
Kind of a “Write and Run”..Weird thingy he enjoys.
Shallow provacate lashing out.
Lot of that coming from the libs these days.
Desperation….
Sad.
Free to Believe.
Let us also not forget Article VI- no religious test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
…except for climate change policy of course.
Thirty years ago Pope John Paul II invited the leaders of world religions to Italy. With over 150 in attendance, he gave the his friend the Dalai Lama the honor of making the first speech. Religious leaders recognize the similarities between religions and show respect in the form of interfaith learning.
It is at the level of practitioners that the line in the sand is drawn. Practicing religion shouldn’t be equivalent to being a die-hard Patriots fan, it shouldn’t be a Chevy v Ford mentality. It is this rigidity that perpetuates hate and leads to radical behavior.
We have much to learn from each other and learning is not accomplished with a closed mind, just as teaching is not accomplished with an iron fist.
We might be a Christian majority nation that was founded in part by Christians but that does not make us a Christian Nation, nor did the founding fathers intend it to be that way.
We are a secular nation, and have always have been.
Thank you, Lance for shedding some light on this subject. Our nation was founded by people who for the most part identified as Christians but our government is not a theocracy and has no intrinsic bias towards Christianity or any other religion. The majority of people in the USA identify as Christian so it might be more correct to say we are a nation that is mostly Christian. The founders of the nation,correctly in my view, understood that when a particular religion and the government or the state merge then trouble follows.This is a problem in many parts of the Moslem world and has in the past been a problem in many parts of the Christian world. I think that is what Mr. Gilliland is referring to.
According to Wikipedia 70% of Americans identify as Christians.
President Barack Obama is the first American president to deny that America is a Christian nation. 6 Notice a few representative statements on this subject by some of the forty-three previous presidents:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. 7 JOHN ADAMS
[T]he teachings of the Bible are so interwoven and entwined with our whole civic and social life that it would be literally….impossible for us to figure to ourselves what that life would be if these teaching were removed. 8 TEDDY ROOSEVELT
America was born a Christian nation – America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture. 9 WOODROW WILSON
American life is builded, and can alone survive, upon . . . [the] fundamental philosophy announced by the Savior nineteen centuries ago. 10 HERBERT HOOVER
This is a Christian Nation. 11 HARRY TRUMAN
Let us remember that as a Christian nation . . . we have a charge and a destiny. 12 RICHARD NIXON
There are many additional examples, including even that of Thomas Jefferson. 13
Significantly, Jefferson was instrumental in establishing weekly Sunday worship services at the U. S. Capitol (a practice that continued through the 19th century) and was himself a regular and faithful attendant at those church services, 14 not even allowing inclement weather to dissuade his weekly horseback travel to the Capitol church. 15
(The fact that the U. S. Capitol building was available for church on Sundays was due to the Art. I, Sec. 7 constitutional requirement that forbade federal lawmaking on Sundays; and this recognition of a Christian Sabbath in the U. S. Constitution was cited by federal courts as proof of the Christian nature of America. 16 While not every Christian observes a Sunday Sabbath, no other religion in the world honors Sunday except Christianity. As one court noted, the various Sabbaths were “the Friday of the Mohammedan, the Saturday of the Israelite, or the Sunday of the Christian.” 17 )
is-america-a-christian-nation-4Why was Jefferson a faithful attendant at the Sunday church at the Capitol? He once explained to a friend while they were walking to church together:
No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example. 18
The U. S. Congress Affirms that America is a Christian Nation
Culturally we are a Christian nation. Even our atheists mostly denounce the Christian God and his devotees when they set out to demolish divinity—Christopher Hitchens and Maher are are among the rare exceptions. It takes an absurdly narrow, pedantic mind to imagine that a nation’s culture is contained entirely in single legal document—-even a national Constitution. That cultural influence is part of the mental furnishings of every man and woman contributing here; even those who avoid churches as if they were leper colonies.
@JL: Why don’t you state your source? WALLBUILDERS? !?!
David Barton, founder, is an evangelical Christian political activist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“…Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1797. Article 11 states: “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”
http://www.salon.com/2009/04/14/christian_nation/
Well ..whether we were or not founded as nation who were followers of Christ..
We sure as hell are not one now
Thou shalt have no other gods before
Thou shall not murder(that would include babies..)
Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self
Not a lot of this going on.
Hummm…? For the benefit of those that have not read my prior disclaimer on other commentary, I offer my opinion otherwise, it’s just paraphrasing or it will be “quoted” as such, (which I’m pretty sure Ms. M has read or amnesia is lurking in the mist) if you click on my name “in blue” it will link to the “source” not that Ms. M or better should be called the queen of “cut and paste” and endless links/internet web mistress, seems to not know?
At least, I have more often offered an opinion or genuine thought, than the few times it was better said and for brevity a source was linked (“…Since brevity is the soul of wit / And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes, I will be brief…”, yet-still ironically, I’m called out by the Queen of the Internet?
Nuff Said…
Yet my comment is missing and had followed my “sourced ” comments, “…that the 44th president, Mr. Barrack Husain Obama is the only one in denial of this nation being a Christian Nation, yet the previous 43, which btw, are or were from different party affiliations and religious backgrounds did not deny the obvious…
Nuff Said…
Re: President Obama’s actual statement: “…the meaning remains clear to any reasonable person. Saying that the U.S. is not “just” a Christian nation carries the sense that it is both a Christian nation and more: a nation of Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and nonbelievers as well…”
“…what the authors of this and similar mass e-mails have chosen to omit is the word “just,” converting Obama’s factual description of America’s diversity of religious beliefs to a statement that some interpret as anti-Christian. This snippet from Obama’s two-year-old speech was resurrected June 23 by Fox News…”
Here’s the link to this article if a reader cares to view it in its entirety:
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/obama-and-the-christian-nation-quote/
P.S. I did not know about the magic of “in blue”, JL. Thank you!
Our nation needs to be healed.
Not because of the ignorant comments by trump(sorry but ya can’t blame EVERYTHING on him folks…).
Not because of the greed and corruption of the likes of the Clintons (again…same as trump).
We need to be humble and honest.
These are looked upon these days as “weakness”.
So we don’t.
We need Gods forgiveness and healing.
Again…viewed as weakness…we don’t do it.
Instead the gospel (God is Love) and Gods commandments are viewed as Hate Speech by many.
We are an arrogant nation because of our collective rebellion against our Lord and Saviour.
But none of this changes who He Is.
If he is God We will answer for our “decisions”.
This is absolutely just and fair.
Jesus Christ said, “I am that I am”. “before Abraham was I am”.
“The alpha and omega, the beginning and the ending, the same yesterday today and forever”.
“I am the way the truth and the life”
“Have no other gods”
Either He is a Liar, or He is God.
He says He Is God.
We need God to heal our land.
He says He will if we turn to Him..humble ourselves, pray and seek his face..turn from our wicked ways.
Is He a Liar?
Contrary to popular opinion..we are not God. He is.
His strength Is made perfect in weakness.
Where sin abounds, there does Grace more abounds.
His offer of Love and Salvation still stands today for each of us.
Choose this day whom you will serve.
The separation of church and state go back a lot further than the 1700s. There is a religious sect, its popular and power hungry. It’s called Catholicism. The Catholics have ruled countries and slaughtered more people than anybody, for the most trivial of reasons, then we have American puritans, who would most likely kill you if you got the Lord’s prayer wrong. History has shown, that in order for a free people to exist there has to be a clear separation of church and state. Placing God and Christian sentiment within our sacred country is not an indoctrination or religious endorsement, as 99.99% of the people living here were Christians, and what better way to unify a people than by making them feel included. But our government has the duty to ALL Americans now, and the Constitution covers ALL Americans now. Nobody is above it. But all in all we are a nation of Christians, that fact is undeniable. Presidents swear an oath on the Bible, not the Quran or Talmud or the Marahrabhata.
I’m with Mike.
I am a Christian, I believe in God, believe in the Creation, and have never heard any other rational explanation for how Time, Space, and Matter were created simultaneously or could have been. No honest scientist could disagree. Obviously, the Big Bang didn’t create it, things that don’t already exist can’t explode.
I think it would be wonderful if NO country on Earth was a (insert name of a religion) nation. Consider Saudi Arabia and other countries where no other religion except the chosen one is tolerated, and other Muslim countries, where people of other religions are murdered for their beliefs or for converting to any other religion. America is supposed to have tolerance for all religions or no religion, and not to have any official religion. Religion or lack of one should be every person’s choice, respected by all, as American as apple pie and the Flag, as already written in the First Amendment to the Constitution.
Millions of people have been murdered world-wide for not accepting the “chosen” religion of the area, by Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, etc. Time to Stop the War on Religious/Non-Religious Freedom. There’s no harm in saying America is a Majority Christian nation, if that is true, but I hope it is never officially Christian or any other faith.
I suggest that, on Saturday, we gather down on the banks of the Sandy River… The Ayes on one side and the Nays on the other… then yell and scream at each other across the river… It sounds like more fun than Pokemon Go….. and it is the popular thing to do now… … go and protest…… then go home… We might start a springtime ritual…
Have any of you ever visited the NATIONAL MONUMENT TO THE FOREFATHERS at Plymouth, MA? If not, you should. It is an unbelievable experience to see exactly what the values are that this country were founded on. It is only a short distance away from Plymouth Rock. If you cannot go to visit it then go on the WEB and there is a “you tube” version that you can look at. The monument is awe inspiring.
Also, I would suggest you view the movie “MONUMENTAL” by Kirk Cameron. The history in this DVD is eye opening and I learned a lot which we were never taught in school.
There is also a book about the monument which is well worth reading and owning.
It is called “FAITH AND FREEDOM: The National Monument To the Forefathers”
by Dave Pelland and sells at Barnes & Nobel for $6.95.
We could all use a refresher history lesson on what the founding fathers intended.
God bless American … we need HIS grace, love and guidance.
Check out your history, folks. Many of the “founding fathers” were decidedly NOT religious or “Christian.” If they had been of one mind on this, don’t you think they had the combined wit to actually explicitly make this a “Christian Nation” instead of prohibiting that in the Constitution? Instead, their combined past made them wisely aware of the historical dangers of melding religion and government. Turns out they were right!
This may be true of the history books you are familiar with, possibly you are of young age, for that l don’t blame that you are a victim of the revisionist history that has expunged the real faith of our founding fathers from the pages of their accounts. Yet still, I am not suggesting that the First Amendment is a farce; I am saying that it was not written in a vacuum.
The framers of the Constitution were in a pivotal period in human history when the theism of the middle ages was being challenged by the humanism of the enlightenment. Like I mentioned earlier and “sourced”, that the framers of our founding documents said the “Creator endowed all men with certain unalienable rights”, they were thinking of the “Creator identified in the Bible.” How else can you deny or define it other than form the Christian Bible. Also, when they said that the, “…state could not establish or restrain religious expression…”, they were speaking from a paradigm that imagined a society guided by the truth presented in the Bible. They saw “natural law,” as it was being called, as “God’s Law”, which is evident in both nature and human nature. In other words, our nation was founded on Christian principles. For those reasons and anyone that does not have an agenda or a misguided “alternative dribble”, believes their writings prove the founding fathers imagined it would survive only by continuing to follow those principles.
Nuff Said…
JL
February 24, 2017 • 10:34 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation. ?????
This may be true of the history books you are familiar with, possibly you are of young age, for that l don’t blame that you are a victim of the revisionist history that has expunged the real faith of our founding fathers from the pages of their accounts. Yet still, I am not suggesting that the First Amendment is a farce; I am saying that it was not written in a vacuum.
The framers of the Constitution were in a pivotal period in human history when the theism of the middle ages was being challenged by the humanism of the enlightenment. Like I mentioned earlier and “sourced”, that the framers of our founding documents said the “Creator endowed all men with certain unalienable rights”, they were thinking of the “Creator identified in the Bible.” How else can you deny or define it other than form the Christian Bible. Also, when they said that the, “…state could not establish or restrain religious expression…”, they were speaking from a paradigm that imagined a society guided by the truth presented in the Bible. They saw “natural law,” as it was being called, as “God’s Law”, which is evident in both nature and human nature. In other words, our nation was founded on Christian principles. For those reasons and anyone that does not have an agenda or a misguided “alternative dribble”, believes their writings prove the founding fathers imagined it would survive only by continuing to follow those principles.
Nuff Said…
Good idea Glen…I like it.
It would be the only way to get a word in edgewise with the liberals.
Since they are spending their time screaming on the street corner these days.
What do we have to lose right!!!
The founders were mostly Deist, not Christian, though to fit in the culture they used Christian words. I think these myths about the creation of the world and its meaning are becoming obsolete. People are realizing that religions are ways people tried to understand the world, and they worked when people shared the same story. But in an era of globalization we have to move beyond that. We have to find the commonality of purpose rather than fight about which story is right, or which person to believe. It’ll take us awhile to reach that advanced spot.
Check out your history someone suggests…..
OK.. What source?
History had been rewritten to please folks who don’t like it..
The “HISTORY” that had been taught the last few decades is VASTLY DIFFERENT than the history that was taught further back…
What’s that all about??
So if you’re going to “check your history”..
It might take more digging than you think to uncover the buried truth.
History had been rewritten.. Most like the modern version.
I don’t.
History used to be taught in a way that whitewashed it and tried to make it sound like everything the US did was good, and fit the propaganda. Now there are efforts to really get at true history – I love it when my kids come home from school and know the true story of Columbus, and of the way America spread West. There is no need to fear the truth, and the only way it’s been “rewritten” is to get rid of the mythology and even lies, and uncover the truth. I think that bothers people who learned the mythology.
The concept of “Christian nation” is what is wrong here. All of western civilization was founded on Christian principles – with a dose of Judaism and Greek thought thrown in (Plato and Aristotle were used by Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas respectively to build theology). Even an atheist in the US has a set of morals and principles very much informed by a culture dominated by Christianity. But a “Christian nation” suggests that it is a country of, by and for Christians. That’s clearly not what the founders intended. As globalization spreads the differences between cultures gets blurred. The problems in the Muslim world – historically more advanced than the West until the Ottomans took over – are because western ideas are permeating a very traditional culture, and there’s a back lash. Though that’s to be expected – look at the violent history of the West: slavery, WWI, WWII, the holocaust, communism, colonialism destroying traditional cultures. Modernizing and moving away from tradition and religion can be a very violent process.
John Adams and Thomas Jefferson grew to despise each other. Neither really trusted George Washington. At various points, James Madison was quite sure none of the above had bothered to read the Constitution. You can look it up.
Anyone who believes the Founders were in complete agreement about much of anything (religion, law, the meaning of liberty, the workings of the economy, the proper role for women, etc.) has obviously never spent an afternoon in room full of politicians.
Sorry Scott, but this society of everyone getting trophys and hurt feelings is what’s wrong with the country today.
It’s hard to know if our assumptions may be distorted–we’ve lived with them for so long they feel comfortable and correct. When they are challenged, we may feel the solid foundation of our life is threatened. It can make us angry or defensive. This can happen regardless of what political or religious convictions we have. It can be me or it can be you. The only way out is to open our hearts.
@On the sandy: I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. But please explain what your last sentence means…most of us are not psychologists. Are we talking about forgiveness, understanding, compassion, live-and-let-live, etc.?
I subscribe to the school of “see something, say something”, for better or worse. It is offensive to me to look the other the other way when faced with bigotry, xenophobia, etc.
Matthew, uh, what are you talking about? I like competition, I don’t think everyone should get a trophy. That is a very bizarre comment to say to me.
On the Sandy: I think you’re right. Everyone has beliefs, but if we open our hearts and look beyond what story or particular “ism” one believes, there are a lot of good people. Fear is the big enemy – fear creates anger and hatred. Fear reduces self-confidence, and gets people to think they have to cut other people down in order to feel powerful.
We are not a Christian Nation….
And that “Is” the problem.
But those that obey God are still blessed beyond measure.
And ya can’t take that away.
My Hero ..Jesus Christ.
We Give Thanks to God with full hearts.
Try it.. You’ll like it !!
“AMEN” Exactly Right … we have drifted far from our Christian moorings.
I believe God has given us another chance to make things right .
“IN GOD WE TRUST”—– Whatever could that mean??? O M G—- Did you know that phrase is still printed on the currency in this country? Where are the protestors? Why aren’t they protesting this use of the word of “GOD” ?
God is a neutral term. God is the Jewish Lord, Islam’s Allah, and Hinduism’s Brahman. God as a concept is unfathomable, the reason why there is something and no nothing. God is what is outside space-time, unimaginable to us, but somehow is a reason this world exists. Human created religions are myths, designed to try to comprehend the incomprehensible. The Bible, the Koran, etc., all human efforts to try to penetrate the sublime. So yeah, a belief in Jesus or Muhammad is to me a bit silly, but if people want to believe those stories they can. I suspect within a couple generations such thinking will be obsolete. But God – the idea there is something outside our material existence that gives meaning to existence – that is not obsolete, and perhaps will become more prevalent as we move from myths to actually contemplating existence.
Quote,
“It does not give any group of people the right to claim the nation for themselves and impose their religious views.”
Question,
Do You interpret this to mean,,?
“It gives any group of people the right to claim the nation for themselves and impose their NON-religious views.” ( ???)
Where’s the liberal tolerance?
I think lately, more and more Americans are seeing it for what it is.
Reject.